A-11 Offense ??

[goldenwings68]

I really could care less whether anyone agrees with me or not--the fact remains--read the ruleWhch states--"A player in the game under the exception must assume an initial position on his line of scrimmage..."

Now you are telling me we could have 11 players in the game under the exception????? There are only five players that fit the original intent of the exception rule--those that normally wear numbers between 50 and 79-According to you, the coach could send in eleven players in under the exception and any of those eleven can become the five on any play without ever leaving the field---Thus no player wearing the number 50-79 to be replaced by a player wearing a number 1-49 or 80-99. Now, tell me again where I am mistaken?

You're telling me that from the very start of a game, this offence can take the field never having a player out on the field with a number 50-79 and be in a scrimmage kick formation the entire game using players numbering 1-49 or 80-99? Can you tell me where the exception to the rule applies here? Is this the intent of the exception?

[TXMike]

Originally Posted by goldenwings68

You're telling me that from the very start of a game, this offence can take the field never having a player out on the field with a number 50-79 and be in a scrimmage kick formation the entire game using players numbering 1-49 or 80-99? Can you tell me where the exception to the rule applies here? Is this the intent of the exception?

That is the crux of the argument on the A-11 isn't it? That Team A can "cutesy" it's way around the numbering requirement by being in the NFHS loosely defined " scrimmage kick formation" ?

[goldenwings68]

Rule 7 section 2, Art 5b reads----"At the snap at least five players on the line of scrimmage MUST be numbered 50-79..."

Exception: When A sets or shifts into a SCRIMMAGE KICK FORMATION any A player numbered 1-49 or 80-99 may take the position of any A player numbered 50 to 79 (meaning five players can be sent in to meet this exception)

This offense is allowing the coach to start the game or any set of downs with 11 players on the field wearing numbers 1-49 or 80-99 without ever having five players on the field numbering 50-79 and operating in the SKR the entire game and never using the exception because he never had any players meeting the requirements of wearing the numbers 50-79---Thus in my opinion, breaking the rule from the start.

[TXMike]

Originally Posted by goldenwings68

Rule 7 section 2, Art 5b reads----"At the snap at least five players on the line of scrimmage MUST be numbered 50-79..."

Exception: When A sets or shifts into a SCRIMMAGE KICK FORMATION any A player numbered 1-49 or 80-99 may take the position of any A player numbered 50 to 79 (meaning five players can be sent in to meet this exception)

This offense is allowing the coach to start the game or any set of downs with 11 players on the field wearing numbers 1-49 or 80-99 without ever having five players on the field numbering 50-79 and operating in the SKR the entire game and never using the exception because he never had any players meeting the requirements of wearing the numbers 50-79---Thus in my opinion, breaking the rule from the start.

How does NFHS define "shift"? I know it is mixing apples and oranges, but under NCAA rules, "shift" would include 2 or more players running in from the sideline after the RFP whistle. If NFHS uses same definition couldnt they just hold the team at the sideline and wait for the RFP before running in and taking a position? Bottom line is that there appears to be enough "looseness" in the current NFHS rules to let them "get away" with this offense. Use your energy to get the NFHS to eliminate any uncertainity and make this entire spectacle a footnote in history.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by TXMike

How does NFHS define "shift"? I know it is mixing apples and oranges, but under NCAA rules, "shift" would include 2 or more players running in from the sideline after the RFP whistle.

If they're players rather than substitutes, what are they doing running in from the sideline? To shift, they have to be players, and their shift can't start until they've been stationary. No way to satisfy both requirements by your scenario. It is possible for them to have legally left the field during the preceding down and remain players, but they still couldn't "shift" from there.

If NFHS uses same definition

They don't. In Fed you can have a 1 player shift. But that's irrelevant to your example.

Robert

[Ed Hickland]

By the rules the widest the offense can spread before the RFP is 35 yards -- that would place them inside the numbers. After the RFP they can shift outside the numbers.

[TXMike]

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

By the rules the widest the offense can spread before the RFP is 35 yards -- that would place them inside the numbers. After the RFP they can shift outside the numbers.

Surely a team could have all 11 out near the sideline until after the RFP and then run everyone inside the numbers and still be legal? (And once inside the numbers 1 or more could go back outside them)

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by goldenwings68

I really could care less whether anyone agrees with me or not--the fact remains--read the ruleWhch states--"A player in the game under the exception must assume an initial position on his line of scrimmage..."

Really then why did you post "Comments, observations, agreements, disagreements???????!!!!!??"

Originally Posted by goldenwings68

This offense is allowing the coach to start the game or any set of downs with 11 players on the field wearing numbers 1-49 or 80-99 without ever having five players on the field numbering 50-79 and operating in the SKR the entire game and never using the exception because he never had any players meeting the requirements of wearing the numbers 50-79---Thus in my opinion, breaking the rule from the start.

There's no requirement the 50-79 players ever step on the field.

Like it or not, the system is presently legal.

But don't be concerned. It's not going to last. It will be addressed.