Slots going in motion...NHSF

[dlref]

NHSF rules....at what point is it a false start when a slot goes in motion? (Can it ever be a false start?) Does he have to be in motion 1 second prior to the snap? Can he start going in motion as the ball is being snapped?

Citations in any rule book, case book, etc. would be helpful. Any help would be appreciated.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by dlref

NHSF rules....at what point is it a false start when a slot goes in motion? (Can it ever be a false start?) Does he have to be in motion 1 second prior to the snap? Can he start going in motion as the ball is being snapped?

Citations in any rule book, case book, etc. would be helpful. Any help would be appreciated.

I am not sure exactly what NHSF is. But under NFHS Rules it is only a false start if they simulate the snap. If the player is in motion, then it is likely illegal motion or an illegal shift under the right circumstances. I do not have my rulebooks right now in front of me, so I do not have a specific reference.

Peace

[kdf5]

7-1-7 . . . After the ball is marked ready for play and before the snap begins, no false start shall be made by any A player. It is a false start if:
a. A shift or feigned charge simulates action at the snap.
b. Any act is clearly intended to cause B to encroach.
c. Any A player on his line between the snapper and the player on the end of
his line, after having placed a hand(s) on or near the ground, moves his
hand(s) or makes any quick movement.

7-1-8 . . . If a false start causes B to encroach, only the false start is penalized.

7-2-6 . . . After a huddle or shift all 11 players of A shall come to an absolute stop and shall remain stationary simultaneously without movement of hands, feet, head or body for at least one second before the snap.

7-2-7 . . . Only one A player may be in motion at the snap and then only if such motion is not toward his opponent’s goal line. Except for the player “under the snapper,” as outlined in Article 3, the player in motion shall be at least 5 yards behind his line of scrimmage at the snap if he started from any position not clearly behind the line and did not establish himself as a back by stopping for at least one full second while no part of his body is breaking the vertical plane through the waistline of his nearest teammate who is on the line of scrimmage.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by kdf5

7-2-7 . . . Only one A player may be in motion at the snap and then only if such motion is not toward his opponent’s goal line. Except for the player “under the snapper,” as outlined in Article 3, the player in motion shall be at least 5 yards behind his line of scrimmage at the snap if he started from any position not clearly behind the line and did not establish himself as a back by stopping for at least one full second while no part of his body is breaking the vertical plane through the waistline of his nearest teammate who is on the line of scrimmage.

Working a JV game last night with 3 officials I don't really know. I was the white hat.

Swinging gate try after TD. Right end on the line of scrimmage, alone and wide, before the snap, started shuffling to his left before the snap. It appeared he was on the line of scrimmage. Not my determination to make, obviously. No flag down. Nobody said anything.

But my understanding is that this was not legal motion provided he was on the line as he did not establish himself as a back for a full second before going into motion OR go five yards behind the line during his motion.

I asked the wing what he saw, but he's a new guy who said he never heard of such a thing.

Correct me if I'm missing something. I'm very good with the rules (I know, everyone thinks that of themselves), but this is not something you see every day.

[kdf5]

If he's on the LOS and then goes in motion he needs to be 5 yards deep at the snap.

[Bob M.]

Originally Posted by dlref

NHSF rules....at what point is it a false start when a slot goes in motion? (Can it ever be a false start?) Does he have to be in motion 1 second prior to the snap? Can he start going in motion as the ball is being snapped? And he can certainly start in motion as the snap begins...as long as it's not forward. We see this all the time.

Citations in any rule book, case book, etc. would be helpful. Any help would be appreciated.

REPLY: As long as the player is moving at the snap, there can be no one-second requirement of any kind, since there is no shift involved. A shift occurs when he stops moving. Since he hasn't stopped moving, no shift has occurred.

A false start occurs anytime a player of A makes an abrupt movement that simulates the start of a play. So if he jumps up into a blocking stance and then goes into motion, he has committed a false start.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by dlref

Can he start going in motion as the ball is being snapped?

Everyone can start motion as the ball is snapped.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Working a JV game last night with 3 officials I don't really know. I was the white hat.

Swinging gate try after TD. Right end on the line of scrimmage, alone and wide, before the snap, started shuffling to his left before the snap. It appeared he was on the line of scrimmage. Not my determination to make, obviously. No flag down. Nobody said anything.

But my understanding is that this was not legal motion provided he was on the line as he did not establish himself as a back for a full second before going into motion OR go five yards behind the line during his motion.

But was he still in motion (heh, oxymoron, "still in motion") when the ball was snapped?

I don't know how as R in a 4 man crew you'd've had a good enough view to tell if someone was on the line of scrimmage, so you probably saw it wrong. The way most teams run swinging gate, aside from the snapper they have a "bunch" split to one side, rather than a solo split end. The snapper is a split end if they snap before they shift.

Robert

[daggo66]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

Everyone can start motion as the ball is snapped.

In fact it is highly encouraged!

[GBFBUmp]

Originally Posted by daggo66

In fact it is highly encouraged!

It frequently didn't happen in my son's 6th/7th grade game tonight.

[Ed Hickland]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

Working a JV game last night with 3 officials I don't really know. I was the white hat.

Swinging gate try after TD. Right end on the line of scrimmage, alone and wide, before the snap, started shuffling to his left before the snap. It appeared he was on the line of scrimmage. Not my determination to make, obviously. No flag down. Nobody said anything.

But my understanding is that this was not legal motion provided he was on the line as he did not establish himself as a back for a full second before going into motion OR go five yards behind the line during his motion.

I asked the wing what he saw, but he's a new guy who said he never heard of such a thing.

Correct me if I'm missing something. I'm very good with the rules (I know, everyone thinks that of themselves), but this is not something you see every day.

If he lined up through the waistline of the snapper then started in motion that motion must be away from the line of scrimmage and he MUST be, at least, five yards in the backfield at the snap.

From my limited knowledge of NFL rules I believe the end can go in motion on the LOS and some coaches see this on TV and think NFS rules arethe same.

[ajmc]

Very little is actually new, more likely it's the same old, same old wapped in a slightly different package trying to look new. In the shift/motion/false start area, there's the tactic of a set back, clearly set who suddenly explodes forward out of his position for one step and pivots smoothly,either right or left, to continue in perfectly legal motion.

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice shame on me, and the first time I fell for that was a long time ago. Of course the objective is to draw the defense into the NZ, if that fails the set back simply continues in motion. If the defense bites, likely the wings will respond to the encroachment, which is why 4 officials should converge on the center and decide who is guilty of what before the final decision is made, and signal given.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by Ed Hickland

From my limited knowledge of NFL rules I believe the end can go in motion on the LOS and some coaches see this on TV and think NFS rules arethe same.

No, that's Canadian rules. The reason some coaches get it wrong is not because of what they see on TV, but because of what they hear on radio or TV: "Tight end goes in motion." "They put their tight end in motion." The announcers are calling positions by what they or their spotter sees listed in the roster, rather than by actual position in the formation.

Robert