Illegal Forward Pass - NFL Rules

[GPC2]

Can anyone tell me what the NFL rule for an Illegal Forward Pass is, i.e. is the ball still live?

Yesterday in the Atlanta/Tampa Bay game, an Atlanta receiver caught a pass, and fumbled the ball while being tackled. A Tampa defender recovered a fumble and, during the subsequent return, made an illegal forward pass. There was a huge pileup for the grounded ball, as the officials allowed the ball to remain live. The Falcons ended up recovering the ball. Prior to the illegal forward pass, there was a ruling of Personal Foul (originally ruled Roughing the Passer, but changed after conference) against Tampa Bay. The R stated that since the Falcons recovered the ball, they could decline the Illegal Forward Pass penalty and the PF was subsequently enforced from the end of the Falcons receiver's run.


I know in NFHS and NCAA rules state that an illegal forward pass is incomplete once it hits the ground. Is the NFL rule different, or did the crew make a mistake?

[OverAndBack]

Mentioned here.

And my NFL rulebook says: 8-1-5 "Any forward pass (legal or illegal) becomes incomplete and the ball is dead immediately if the pass strikes the ground or goes out of bounds."

Here was the way it was put on the Gamebook.

3-8-ATL 19 (10:24) (Shotgun) M.Ryan pass deep middle to R.White to ATL 39 for 20 yards [E.Mack]. FUMBLES (J.Phillips) P11
[E.Mack], RECOVERED by TB-S.Piscitelli at ATL 44. S.Piscitelli to ATL 41 for 3 yards. S.Piscitelli pass
incomplete short left to C.June.
PENALTY on TB-E.Mack, Roughing the Passer, 15 yards, enforced at ATL 37. X12
Penalty on TB-S.Piscitelli, Illegal Forward Pass, declined. No fumble for White because roughing the passer penalty happened while the ball was in the air. White credited with a catch for 18 yards as the roughing the passer penalty was enforced from where he caught the ball.

Or "the end of the run," I presume. Declining the illegal forward pass penalty means it's just a straight RTP foul on B, which would be enforced from the end of the run (as it apparently was). The fumble, the IFP and the subsequent "recovery" (I forget by whom - didn't see it and it was hard to tell listening to it on the radio) just muddied the waters for me.

I look forward to seeing Pereira sort this one out on Wednesday.

[GPC2]

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

Mentioned here.

And my NFL rulebook says: 8-1-5 "Any forward pass (legal or illegal) becomes incomplete and the ball is dead immediately if the pass strikes the ground or goes out of bounds."

Here was the way it was put on the Gamebook.

3-8-ATL 19 (10:24) (Shotgun) M.Ryan pass deep middle to R.White to ATL 39 for 20 yards [E.Mack]. FUMBLES (J.Phillips) P11
[E.Mack], RECOVERED by TB-S.Piscitelli at ATL 44. S.Piscitelli to ATL 41 for 3 yards. S.Piscitelli pass
incomplete short left to C.June.
PENALTY on TB-E.Mack, Roughing the Passer, 15 yards, enforced at ATL 37. X12
Penalty on TB-S.Piscitelli, Illegal Forward Pass, declined. No fumble for White because roughing the passer penalty happened while the ball was in the air. White credited with a catch for 18 yards as the roughing the passer penalty was enforced from where he caught the ball.

Or "the end of the run," I presume. Declining the illegal forward pass penalty means it's just a straight RTP foul on B, which would be enforced from the end of the run (as it apparently was). The fumble, the IFP and the subsequent "recovery" (I forget by whom - didn't see it and it was hard to tell listening to it on the radio) just muddied the waters for me.

I look forward to seeing Pereira sort this one out on Wednesday.

The only problem is that there was no RTP on this play - although that is what was initially reported. The foul was changed to PF (since the contact in question was during the return). However, Triplette said that since Atlanta recovered the ball, they had the option of declining the Illegal Forward Pass penalty. The PF was then enforced from the end of the related run.

I was just wondering if the NFL had different rules regarding illegal forward passes. I guess the crew made a mistake.

[refskin]

I'm watching this game when the play happens. ATL completes forward pass, fumble then recovered by Tampa. TB player pitches ball forward incomplete. On INT return, ATL QB takes a helmet to his head.

As they are unpiling the players, I'm saying it does not matter who has the ball. I am not certain of the NFL rules, but in NFHS, the ball was dead when it was incomplete. The flag was thrown correctly for illegal forward pass. Then there was a foul for roughing the passer. At first, when the R said the fouls offset, I could not believe it. ATL was going to keep the ball. Then the ATL coach started screaming about it, and I said that he needed to shut-up, because he should not have the ball at all. When the officials got together, I thought they were going to get it right, but only got it partially correct in saying that both fouls were now against Tampa Bay and the foul was not RTP, but PF. They then penalized TB 15 yards for the PF, but ATL kept the ball, 15 yards from where they recovered the fumble!

What I think should have happened was TB would keep ball at the spot of foul for illegal forward pass. Then they would be backed up 15 yards for live ball PF. In essence, ATL would decline the IFP penalty. TB got the ball with "clean hands" and should keep it.

This is my opinion, and again, I am not familar with NFL rules, but I thought it was relatively simple. I would be interested in hearing anyone else's opinion on this play.

[OverAndBack]

And, yet, there's no big story today saying "Jeff Triplette To Be Downgraded" that causes Michael Wilbon to get all verklempt.

I would hope Pereira addresses this tonight.

[GPC2]

To me, this play was far more egregious than the Hochuli play. For an NFL referee (and the rest of the crew too) to misapply a rule is horrible in my opinion.

[OverAndBack]

Well, it's a rules knowledge and application error rather than a mechanical/judgmental one, right? So it's a bit different. But, yeah, because it happened when it did, where it did, between the teams it did and because it's not seen as having given the game from one team to the other, there's no outcry.

And it's confusing to the average fan, as well. Which factors into it.

[merlin]

Originally Posted by OverAndBack

I would hope Pereira addresses this tonight.

Any news?
As I posted in the other thread. I am still thinking about this play.

[SportsFan]

Originally Posted by merlin

Any news?
As I posted in the other thread. I am still thinking about this play.

He did not mention the play at all.