OSU Purdue Incomplete Pass or Fumble

[FeetBallRef]

For anyone who knows the D-I college rules & saw the OSU game Saturday night. The OSU QB started his passing motion to a TE across the middle. About have way through his motion, he stopped the throwing motion and the ball came out of his grasp. The ruling on the filed was a fumble. It looked like a fumble as no one had contacted the QB, he just changed his mind because the TE was covered & lost control of the ball.

The replay official overturned the fumble to a incomplete pass. Could some one please explain why the replay official overturned the call on the field?

[MJT]

Off the top of my head, I'm pretty sure that if the arm is going forward and the ball comes out, it is a fumble.

[Warrenkicker]

Originally Posted by MJT

Off the top of my head, I'm pretty sure that if the arm is going forward and the ball comes out, it is a fumble.

What????

[MJT]

Originally Posted by Warrenkicker

What????

What I am saying is if the QB is moving his arm forward to throw the ball, but changes his mind and he stops his arm (as in the play described) but the ball comes out, I think it is considered a forward pass.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by MJT

What I am saying is if the QB is moving his arm forward to throw the ball, but changes his mind and he stops his arm (as in the play described) but the ball comes out, I think it is considered a forward pass.

In USAn rules sets, "fumble" is a type of loose ball defined by exclusion; lack of volition does not figure in making it a fumble. In the case above, the ball is considered to have been thrown, albeit involuntarily, so because it can be considered a pass, it does not "fall thru" (in computer programming terms) to "fumble" as a default.

Because of the way loose balls are defined, it is thus possible to have an involuntary pass or a voluntary fumble. For example, if someone were to attempt the equivalent of what would be a "leave pass" in soccer or hockey by laying the ball on the ground, that would be a fumble rather than a pass in USAn football. That determination would have relevance in terms of the 4th down fumble rules in NCAA & NFL.

Robert

[Bob M.]

REPLY: There is a statement in the definition of passing whaich says that when in question, it is an incomplete pass rather than a fumble during an attempted forward pass.

[FeetBallRef]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

REPLY: There is a statement in the definition of passing whaich says that when in question, it is an incomplete pass rather than a fumble during an attempted forward pass.

The QB clearly stopped his throwing motion & that is when the ball hit the ground. I thought the crew on the field (R & U) got it right. I was wondering why the replay official would overturn their judgment. There didn't appear to be any question that he wasn't throwing it but lost control when he "stopped the throw". It wasn't one of those things that needed frame by frame of the replay video to make the decision. When is "stopping a throw" no longer a pass?

[insatty]

"A forward pass is determined by the point where the ball first strikes the ground . . . or anything beyond the spot of the pass." Rule 2-19-2a. The replay official saw that the ball after release from the QB's forward-moving arm struck the ground "beyond the spot of the pass." Thus, incomplete pass by rule.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by MJT

What I am saying is if the QB is moving his arm forward to throw the ball, but changes his mind and he stops his arm (as in the play described) but the ball comes out, I think it is considered a forward pass.

That's pretty much the opposite of what you said in the first post.

Yes - if the QB is moving his arm forward in a passing motion, and the ball comes out, it's a forward pass. Your first post says fumble (which is why the first response to you was "What?!?!?!")

[w_sohl]

Originally Posted by Bob M.

REPLY: There is a statement in the definition of passing whaich says that when in question, it is an incomplete pass rather than a fumble during an attempted forward pass.

in college since they have replay their thought process would be the opposite since they can overturn a fumble. I could be wrong as I have been MANY times before.

[MJT]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

That's pretty much the opposite of what you said in the first post.

Yes - if the QB is moving his arm forward in a passing motion, and the ball comes out, it's a forward pass. Your first post says fumble (which is why the first response to you was "What?!?!?!")

Whoops! I never saw that, but I meant NOT a fumble. Thanks.

[NickelDeuce]

I believe w sohl hit the nail on the head. The R very well could have thought this was an incomplete pass but went with fumble so replay could take a look. That's the philosophy they teach those guys. When in doubt, it's a fumble. That doesn't excuse them from stepping up and making an incomplete call when it's there but I totally agree that if there is a little bit of doubt, go with fumble.

[Warrenkicker]

Originally Posted by MJT

Whoops! I never saw that, but I meant NOT a fumble. Thanks.

Now I can go back to believing you again.

[FeetBallRef]

So if we all agree that it was a pass then why wouldn't it be intentional grounding because there were no receivers in the area.

[bigjohn]

He didn't INTEND to Throw the ball???