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Wed Jun 25, 2003, 08:23am
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1/10 from A-20. A7 drops back to throw a pass and is under heavy rush. He steps forward and begins to run and crosses the neutral zone. When he is at the A-23, he throws and incomplete forward pass towards A88.
If for some stupid reason B wanted to decline the penalty, where would the succeeding spot be? I'm at work and without my rulebook so I can't check this for myself. Thanks!
__________________
Mike Sears 
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Wed Jun 25, 2003, 08:30am
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End of run
(NCAA) The succeeding spot is the end of the run, which is where the pass was thrown from. Note, that an illegal forward pass from the end zone would result in a safety whether it is declined or not, but there is an exception that allows team B to decline the foul and it is treated as an incomplete legal forward pass, ball placed at the previous spot.
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Wed Jun 25, 2003, 09:38am
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(NF) enforcement spot is also the end of the run.
A play that tends to come up every so often at local chapter meetings is one that involves an illegal forward pass thrown by the a runner to stop the clock because he was not going to be able to get out of bounds while time is running out. So he needs to stop the clock in an effort to conserve time. The discussion centers mainly on not where the enforcement spot will be as that is the easy part, it centers on how the clock will be handled and what to do when time expires before the snap.
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Wed Jun 25, 2003, 10:28am
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(NF)The discussion centers mainly on not where the enforcement spot will be as that is the easy part, it centers on how the clock will be handled and what to do when time expires before the snap. [/QUOTE]
So A is driving for that tying FG when the coach calls a sweep with no timeouts remaining. A32 realizes he can't get OB and there's only 5 seconds left. So, being beyond the line, he throws the IFP incomplete. Clock stops and the penalty is administered while A brings in the FG unit, snaps on the RFP. Kick is good. Are you saying the clock should be handled differently so as not to give A their shot at the FG?
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Wed Jun 25, 2003, 10:55am
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So A is driving for that tying FG when the coach calls a sweep with no timeouts remaining. A32 realizes he can't get OB and there's only 5 seconds left. So, being beyond the line, he throws the IFP incomplete. Clock stops and the penalty is administered while A brings in the FG unit, snaps on the RFP. Kick is good.
Are you saying the clock should be handled differently so as not to give A their shot at the FG? [/B][/QUOTE] In NCAA the next play after an incomplete forward pass the clock would start on the snap. In the case of an incomplete illegal forward pass to conserve time the clock will start on the RFP. If they don't get that field goal off in time then the period, half, or game is over.
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Wed Jun 25, 2003, 12:45pm
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There is a big difference in handling the clock for NF games vs NCAA games for fouls that occur near or at the end of a game (or half).
No question on the NCAA ruling for the case I was mentioning. JasonTX stated that. But for NF, team-B may get shafted because after winding the clock.... team-A will still get a chance to snap even after it goes to 0:00.
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Wed Jun 25, 2003, 02:10pm
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Theisey, why would they get a chance to snap after the clock hits 0:00?? All the defense has to do in this case is to decline the penalty to avoid ending the period with an untimed down, right?? Also isn't there something in the book about conserving time illegally and such at the end of a period which would nullify the ending the period with a down in which there was an accepted penalty?? Don't have the books at work, so am winging it here.....
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Wed Jun 25, 2003, 02:30pm
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Quote:
All I'm saying is that this seems to be a good play by A because they managed to stop the clock and get the FG unit on when all seemed lost.
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Wed Jun 25, 2003, 02:38pm
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Andrew,
Where is that same compassion for the defense that you alluded to in another thread today??  ...you know the defense that has stopped the offense except for some "cheating".....shouldn't they be rewarded?? 
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Wed Jun 25, 2003, 03:34pm
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Quote:
I know we talked about a play last year (maybe it wasn't this forum) where the QB runs all the way from the 50 to the 5, where he tosses to #75 in the end zone with no time left. B's screwed with A getting another play- good job by A to know this "loophole" in the rules.
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Wed Jun 25, 2003, 03:49pm
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that would suck wouldn't it....you would think there should be a provision in the rules somewhere to prevent things like this....maybe invoke the "not specifically covered in the rules" clause...and send em home.. but seriously isn't there a provision in the rules for a team illegally consuming/conserving time, which isn't an issue in the td to #75, they are just playing for another down...in the original they are conserving time illegally....
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Wed Jun 25, 2003, 03:58pm
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Yeah, but say in our play to #75 that A was down by 2. Now they have a chip-shot FG chance to win.
You can penalize a team for illegally consuming/conserving time but I'm not so sure you can do it by running off time or denying them the untimed down. These are the types of rules "exceptions" that make pro football rules a lot more complex.
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Wed Jun 25, 2003, 04:04pm
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Doesn't the language in, the right to an un-penalized down area, mention that that right does not include an accepted delay of game?? or something or am I making that up and should send it to the federation....but if that is the case isn't illegally conserving time a delay of game situation... and yes I agree that in your play A gets the chip shot field goal, but they also have to remember that we still look for holding etc....LOL
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Wed Jun 25, 2003, 10:47pm
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Quote:
It may be that the "neutral zone" here in Canada differs from NF and NC2A rules, but if the above did happen using Cdn rules, we would have a flag for an illegal forward pass. Note that this is not a foul, but just that a team has given up the right to advnace the ball. A flag will be thrown only to mark the spot of release, in this case, the A23. So, A 2/7 from the A-23. Ooopps! Let me re-do this: This sitch falls into one of two possibilities. (a) the pass across the LS was an oopsie by the QB - he didn't realize that he was across the LS (b) the pass across the LS was obviously designed to be a forward pass - the QB had reasonable knowledge that he was across the LS (a) Penalty: A 2/7 from the A-23. (b) Penalty: L10 from PLS, DR. Mike [Edited by JugglingReferee on Jun 26th, 2003 at 05:11 AM]
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