Question Regarding End of Down

[TNStripes]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

This is not a rule of thumb ... it's a Maddenism, and not a true statement at all.

So have you had or seen a fumble caused by the "ground"? I personally have not and cannot truly envision a situation that I would rule that on the field besides this situation we are discussing. This play actually occured this past weekend in my area - not in my game - and several of us have been discussing it since. We are all aware of the correct ruling and understand the concept and philosophy of the ruling but it can still make for some interesting views and conversations.

refox...I had to giggle when I read your post..."so it always comes back to the official's judgment as to whether the ball was possessed"...for a moment, I thought we got off the point and was talking Exorcist...LOL

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by TNStripes

So have you had or seen a fumble caused by the "ground"? I personally have not and cannot truly envision a situation that I would rule that on the field besides this situation we are discussing. This play actually occured this past weekend in my area - not in my game - and several of us have been discussing it since. We are all aware of the correct ruling and understand the concept and philosophy of the ruling but it can still make for some interesting views and conversations.

In the NFL, several times... In my games, twice that I can recall - both on a stumbling runner, who - when swinging their arm for balance, struck the football onto the ground at which point it came loose... and both times I had to deal with the moron coach who insisted on what he'd heard 100 times from Madden - "The ground cannot cause a fumble."

[w_sohl]

Originally Posted by PaulJak

w_sohl,

Why is he down where the ball contacted the ground? Can you cite a rule for us?

4-2-2-a states: When a runner goes out of bounds, is held so his forward progress is stopped or allows any part of his person other than hand or foot to touch the ground. Exceptions are listed for a holder during a kick.

There are other reasons for the ball to become dead, but they don't deal with a runner provided in this play his helmet doesn't come completely off at the same time he touches the ground with the ball (passes, loose ball, simultaneous possesion, inadvertant whistle)

In this play, no other part of his person has touched the ground, so this remains a live ball until he is down by rule.

Paul

My bad, this was the rule I was thinking of, but I thought it said when he touches anything other than his hand or foot to the ground he is down. I forgot about the "any part of his person" part...

So to correct myself, a runner touching the ball to the ground is NOT down at that point as no part of his body other than a hand or foot has touched the ground. I am glad that I got involved in this as I would have hated to have an IW in one of my varsity games. I feel like a bafoon now....

[Blue37]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_U6yNYEAQo