Snap is part of Loose Ball Play???

[The Ref of OZ!!!]

I can see where a Long Snap would be considered a backward pass and part of a Loose Ball Play, but not the normal snap from Center to QB. The ball is never loose!!! It may be considered to be a "Handed ball" but according to "Football Fundamentals" part VII PASSES, 3; "A handed ball is not a pass."

I find nothing in the book that says a snap is considered a backward pass.

Help me out!

JimO.

[MJT]

Rule 2-40, the definition of a snap says "the legal act of passing or handing the ball backward from its position on the ground." So, the normal snap would be the handing and a shotgun snap would be the passing.

[With_Two_Flakes]

Agreed, after a quick look I can't find anything in Fed Rules about it. NCAA is a little different,

NCAA Rule 2-23-c
c. If, during any backward motion of a legal snap, the ball slips from the snapper's hand, it becomes a backward pass and is in play.

In Europe, we use NCAA, but on the occasional visit to the USA I do get to work some Fed ball and have to bone up on my out-of-date Fed Rules knowledge. Is there any practical difference between how I would cover a fumble that is loose on the ground and a backward pass that is loose on the ground?

[andy1033]

2007 nfhs rules by topics page 95. A snap is a backward pass.

[The Ref of OZ!!!]

Question #13 on the NFHS test.... "The snap is considered to be a backward pass and part of a loose-ball play."

True or False???

In the NFHS rule book I finally found the answer, after looking all afternoon. Rule 10-3-1 "... A lose-ball play is action during: c. A backward pass (including the snap), illegal kick or fumble......"

This doesn't clarify if it's refering to a "long snap" or simply a regular snap, so I'm assuming that Question #13 is true.

JimO.

[MJT]

Andy and Oz... read my post above. The definition of a snap says it can be passing or handing.
Now, it is obvious that a shotgun snap is the "pass" and if a regular "QB under the center" snap is not the "handing," what is?
Let's look at some definitions.
2-40, A snap is the legal act of passing or handing the ball backward from its position on the ground.
2-31-1, Passing the ball is throwing a ball that is in player possession. In a pass, the ball travels in flight.
2-19-1, Handing the ball is transferring player possession from one player to a teammate in such a way that the ball is still in contact with the first player when it is touched by the teammate. Handing the ball is not a pass. Loss of player possession by unsuccessful execution of attempted handing is a fumble.

So, in a QB under the center snap, the ball is not thrown, but handed, so in that type of snap you do not have a BWPass.

As stated above it is different in NCAA in that they consider the loss of control of a hand to hand snap a BWP.

[BktBallRef]

The snap is considered to be a backward pass and part of a loose-ball play.

If you want to get the question right, you'd better answer TRUE.

[MJT]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

The snap is considered to be a backward pass and part of a loose-ball play.

If you want to get the question right, you'd better answer TRUE.

And thus, the part I and part II tests have questions missed when you get them right, and you get some right when you really missed them!

[BktBallRef]

Sorry MJT but the NFHS doesn't agree with you.

[Ed Maeder]

NFHS doesn't agree with itself in many cases! I'm with MJT on this one.

[MJT]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Sorry MJT but the NFHS doesn't agree with you.

The test answer does not agree with me, but I am correct in my definitions and what they mean. They are right out of the book, and indisputable. Here they are again and they are pretty clear when you consider all three. Everyone who has taken the part I or part II tests know they are worded in a way that some of them can be proven to be T or F.

2-40, A snap is the legal act of passing or handing the ball backward from its position on the ground.
2-31-1, Passing the ball is throwing a ball that is in player possession. In a pass, the ball travels in flight.
2-19-1, Handing the ball is transferring player possession from one player to a teammate in such a way that the ball is still in contact with the first player when it is touched by the teammate. Handing the ball is not a pass. Loss of player possession by unsuccessful execution of attempted handing is a fumble.

[jaybird]

Agreed MJT. Regardless of the answer key, we can't go (totally) wrong by using rule references and especially Rule 2!

[wisref2]

MJT - you might want to continue looking. I don't have my books with me, but I'm sure there is a statement in the rule book that states that a snap is considered a backward pass. Maybe under Fundamental Statements?

[Ed Maeder]

As a matter of fact the Fundamentals state in VII 3. "A handed ball is not a pass."

[The Roamin' Umpire]

Originally Posted by MJT

And thus, the part I and part II tests have questions missed when you get them right, and you get some right when you really missed them!

And, since you've been taking the blasted things for a while now, you know as well as I do that it's not exactly news.