Our Captain Said What???

[SoGARef]

After several fiascos in the past with this same problem I now ask each coach in the pre-game. I say, "Coach, if you win the toss what do you want to do?" I get his response. 90% of the time they want to defer. I then ask, "Which goal do you want to defend? I write down both responses on my game card. At the toss, I make sure that the captains go with what the coach has instructed. I see no problem with this and it has never been questioned.

[BoomerSooner]

don't agree with asking the head coaches ahead of time and then going with what they say. My reasoning to this is that if we are going to do this why not just have the coaches come out for the toss and settle it all that way. I've always believed that if nothing else a coach should be able to get his captain to handle the toss correctly. If not pick a new captain.

I also do not think prompting captains to change their decision onces they've verbalized it is a great idea. Even if we know by saying kick they probably meant defer, the first time an opposing captain catches the winning captain making this mistake and the referee prompts the him to change from kick to defer the opposing captain is going to report this to his coach and then the fun will begin

All this said, I certainly agree that the choices should be given in as clear a manner as possible, and that there shouldn't be an overabundance of kids getting confused or there may be a problem with the way the choices are being given.

I had this discussion with my dad, who captained his high school football team some 35 years ago (never officiated a thing in his life) and he noted that back then the coach actually let the captain make the decision. This was back in the day when kids were held accountable for the actions/decisions. If he had screwed up and his team kicked both halves, he was pretty sure he wouldn't have been a captain anymore and that his teammates would have given him the business. Anymore society in general seems to be in favor of putting kids on the easy road and trying to prevent them from making the mistakes that teach them life's little lessons. Its similar to letting your child touch the stove to learn that its hot...anymore this concept seems outrageous to some parents that anyone would let their kid touch a hot stove, but in the end its the best lesson a kid can get. We wonder why kids are getting into more trouble these days, I think when we stop preventing kids from making the small mistakes, they'll learn enough from them to keep from making the big ones.

Now I'll jump off the soapbox.

[cougar729]

You make some valid points, but I think that for the sake of fairness, regardless of what the "intelligence" level of the captain is, don't let them screw up and kick both halves. We're out there to officiate and not take sides, yes, but at a point we have to understand that while the coin toss options are very clear for us, we are dealing with 17 year old football players.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BoomerSooner

don't agree with asking the head coaches ahead of time and then going with what they say. My reasoning to this is that if we are going to do this why not just have the coaches come out for the toss and settle it all that way. I've always believed that if nothing else a coach should be able to get his captain to handle the toss correctly. If not pick a new captain.

I also do not think prompting captains to change their decision onces they've verbalized it is a great idea. Even if we know by saying kick they probably meant defer, the first time an opposing captain catches the winning captain making this mistake and the referee prompts the him to change from kick to defer the opposing captain is going to report this to his coach and then the fun will begin

All this said, I certainly agree that the choices should be given in as clear a manner as possible, and that there shouldn't be an overabundance of kids getting confused or there may be a problem with the way the choices are being given.

I had this discussion with my dad, who captained his high school football team some 35 years ago (never officiated a thing in his life) and he noted that back then the coach actually let the captain make the decision. This was back in the day when kids were held accountable for the actions/decisions. If he had screwed up and his team kicked both halves, he was pretty sure he wouldn't have been a captain anymore and that his teammates would have given him the business. Anymore society in general seems to be in favor of putting kids on the easy road and trying to prevent them from making the mistakes that teach them life's little lessons. Its similar to letting your child touch the stove to learn that its hot...anymore this concept seems outrageous to some parents that anyone would let their kid touch a hot stove, but in the end its the best lesson a kid can get. We wonder why kids are getting into more trouble these days, I think when we stop preventing kids from making the small mistakes, they'll learn enough from them to keep from making the big ones.

Now I'll jump off the soapbox.

Please look up the concept of "preventive officiating" and get back to us.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by BoomerSooner

don't agree with asking the head coaches ahead of time and then going with what they say. My reasoning to this is that if we are going to do this why not just have the coaches come out for the toss and settle it all that way. I've always believed that if nothing else a coach should be able to get his captain to handle the toss correctly. If not pick a new captain.

I also do not think prompting captains to change their decision onces they've verbalized it is a great idea. Even if we know by saying kick they probably meant defer, the first time an opposing captain catches the winning captain making this mistake and the referee prompts the him to change from kick to defer the opposing captain is going to report this to his coach and then the fun will begin

All this said, I certainly agree that the choices should be given in as clear a manner as possible, and that there shouldn't be an overabundance of kids getting confused or there may be a problem with the way the choices are being given.

I had this discussion with my dad, who captained his high school football team some 35 years ago (never officiated a thing in his life) and he noted that back then the coach actually let the captain make the decision. This was back in the day when kids were held accountable for the actions/decisions. If he had screwed up and his team kicked both halves, he was pretty sure he wouldn't have been a captain anymore and that his teammates would have given him the business. Anymore society in general seems to be in favor of putting kids on the easy road and trying to prevent them from making the mistakes that teach them life's little lessons. Its similar to letting your child touch the stove to learn that its hot...anymore this concept seems outrageous to some parents that anyone would let their kid touch a hot stove, but in the end its the best lesson a kid can get. We wonder why kids are getting into more trouble these days, I think when we stop preventing kids from making the small mistakes, they'll learn enough from them to keep from making the big ones.

Now I'll jump off the soapbox.

Excellent post!

I coached basketball for 6 years and the greatest tool I gave the kids was leanring the game and having them starting to make decisions too.

My lil sis is 11 years younger than me. She was using a calculator for relatively simple math. I stepped in and said no way. Do it in your head. Ya, you'll mess up a few times, but soon enough you will develop your own system to prevent the errors. Kids adapt.

What I won't do: accept an answer until I have a chance to verbalize all the options. I like saying, "Do you want to receive (pause), or kick the ball to them (some emphasis on 'kick to them'), or choose an end to defend."

No, about the kid burning his hand.... that might be too much.

[BoomerSooner]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

No, about the kid burning his hand.... that might be too much.

First of all, I never said let your kid "burn" his hand. I have a 3-year old and I've watched him touch the stove after being told multiple times not to because it is hot. He touched it, pulled his hand back, cried for a few minutes, and was perfectly fine physically after about 2-3 minutes. More importantly, not only does he not touch the stove anymore, but when I tell him something is going to burn, he remembers that experience. So let it be known that I'm not advocating burning little kids.

Secondly to address Rich, I'm fully aware of the principles of preventative officiating. I just don't feel this is a situation that is in need of it. I think this is a coaching issue (preventative coaching anyone?). I feel preventative officiating is for alerting kids to your style of officiating when they become careless with little aspects of the game, i.e. not being on the line, kids coming close to late hits, equipment issues, just to name a few. In my mind, prompting a captain to change his decision is like granting a TO, then realizing it was the teams last, and then asking the captain if he really wants to use his last time out. If he says "whoops, didn't realize it was our last", are you going to say "okay, let's start the clock and you can have your timeout back". I doubt it if you've already stoped the clock and given your signal.

Otherwise to clarify, I fully agree with what everyone else has said about giving the choices in a manner that avoids the dreaded double kicking situation, but once a captain has made his decision, I'm not going to prompt him to change it (or in effect fix his mistakes). I also agree that there is an age component to this issue, but I think by high school, not only should the kids understand what is going on, the coach should also be very clear in his expectations of the captains at the coin toss.

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by BoomerSooner

First of all, I never said let your kid "burn" his hand. I have a 3-year old and I've watched him touch the stove after being told multiple times not to because it is hot. He touched it, pulled his hand back, cried for a few minutes, and was perfectly fine physically after about 2-3 minutes. More importantly, not only does he not touch the stove anymore, but when I tell him something is going to burn, he remembers that experience. So let it be known that I'm not advocating burning little kids.

Sarcasm is sometimes hard to pick up with text- but the smiley face should have been a hint.

[BoomerSooner]

I picked up on it, but all the same, some people think its child abuse when you send your kids to their room without T.V. anymore (literally had a parent tell me that I was wrong not to have a TV in my 3-year old's room and that it was boderline child abuse), so just covering my rear.