No Captain

[SmokeEater]

I had a coach for a Grade 9 boys team tell me at the pre-game meeting he would have no Captain for the game. I aske who will speak on your behalf should there be any questions. His reply was "No one speaks on my behalf". Before the end of the meeting I made him give me a number of a player who I could go to should I needa message passed to the team, he did comply withmy request, btw.

Funny thing is, mid way through the second half during a TO the assistant for the team starts to walk out on the floor to talk to me. I give him the stop sign and tell him I will come over but you are not to be on the floor. Just a note, the game was going great and I had no reason to presume he was going to do anything but ask a question. He starts to complain about the posts pushing his team down low. I immediately started walking away and said, This is why you need a Captain to bring these iisues to my attention! He was stunned and never said another word to me the rest of the game. His team lost by 15 and both he and the head coach came to me and my partner after thanking us for a professional job.

I am wondering though, does the head coach have to identify a team captain?

[mick]

Originally posted by SmokeEater
I am wondering though, does the head coach have to identify a team captain?

I don't need a captain at any level. I'll talk to any game participant.

[mplagrow]

I agree with Mick. If I see a player doing something I don't like, I'll let him know it. If any player asks me a question respectfully, I will answer it gladly. What I WON'T listen to is an assistant coach. One coach on each side trying to bend my ear is enough. Not two. Nope.

[Raymond]

NFHS Rule 3 Sect 1 Art 1

...Each team consists of five players, one of whom is the captain.

Art 2

...The captain is the representative of his/her team and may address an official on matters of interpretation or to obtain essential information...

NFHS Officials Manual Duties of Game Management addresses meeting with the captains as part of OFFICIALS' PREGAME PROTOCOL

One game, home team retreats to locker room. At 10 minute mark my partner, the 'R', has game management go to locker room and inform them to send a captain out for the pre-game conference. Home team complies, no big deal.

[SmokeEater]

I agree with all replies, same rules are in NCAA.

What it doesn't state is whether a Captain is actually required to be identified.

[Nevadaref]

Do you think that five players are required or optional?


What is in 3-1-1 is required.

[assignmentmaker]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
Do you think that five players are required or optional?


What is in 3-1-1 is required.

3-1-1 speaks of "five players, one of whom is the captain."

Do you send the other one or two or three captains back from the pre-game conference?


[Edited by assignmentmaker on Mar 17th, 2006 at 01:09 AM]

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by assignmentmaker

3-1-1 speaks of "five players, one of whom is the captain."

Do send the other one or two or three captains back from the pre-game conference?

Also, do we make the coach leave the captain in the game at all times? (It does say the captain is one of the five players)

[Corndog89]

Originally posted by mplagrow
I agree with Mick. If I see a player doing something I don't like, I'll let him know it. If any player asks me a question respectfully, I will answer it gladly. What I WON'T listen to is an assistant coach. One coach on each side trying to bend my ear is enough. Not two. Nope.

Why would you refuse to talk with an assistant coach during a TO? As long as he's respectful and limits questions/comments to specific activities on the floor, why wouldn't you talk with him? Usually he's asking a question for the head coach who is talking with the team. I've listened/talked with them often, and always kept responses/discussions brief and to the point.

And yes, like everyone on this board I've seen plenty of bonehead asst coaches, but I've also dealt with plenty of asst coaches who had their s*** together. I'm always ready to listen to any calm, respectful player or coach during appropriate dead ball or TO situations.

Okay, time to go Pat Benatar on me and hit me with your best shot...fire away.

[SmokeEater]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
Do you think that five players are required or optional?


What is in 3-1-1 is required.

The rule also does not clearly state that the Captain must be on the floor to start the game, also.

[Raymond]

Originally posted by SmokeEater
I had a coach for a Grade 9 boys team tell me at the pre-game meeting he would have no Captain for the game. I aske who will speak on your behalf should there be any questions. His reply was "No one speaks on my behalf". Before the end of the meeting I made him give me a number of a player who I could go to should I needa message passed to the team, he did comply withmy request, btw.

Funny thing is, mid way through the second half during a TO the assistant for the team starts to walk out on the floor to talk to me. I give him the stop sign and tell him I will come over but you are not to be on the floor. Just a note, the game was going great and I had no reason to presume he was going to do anything but ask a question. He starts to complain about the posts pushing his team down low. I immediately started walking away and said, This is why you need a Captain to bring these iisues to my attention! He was stunned and never said another word to me the rest of the game. His team lost by 15 and both he and the head coach came to me and my partner after thanking us for a professional job.

I am wondering though, does the head coach have to identify a team captain?

Smoke, hate to stick to the subject, but did anyone really answer your question? I'm going to rephrase it and see what we get.

You are performing a formal evaluation for your local association. You have a 1st/2nd year ref performing 'R' duties for the first time in a Boys JV game. Coach refuses to provide captain for pre-game conference. After the game the young ref asks you what he should have done in that situation. What do you tell him?

[Edited by BadNewsRef on Mar 17th, 2006 at 02:01 PM]

[SmokeEater]

Originally posted by BadNewsRef

Smoke, hate to stick to the subject, but did anyone really answer your question? I'm going to rephrase it and see what we get.

You are performing a formal evaluation for your local association. You have a 1st/2nd year ref performing 'R' duties for the first time in a Boys JV game. Coach refuses to provide captain for pre-game conference. After the game the young ref asks you he should have done in that situation. What do you tell him? [/B]

I think the answer lies in Rule 3-1-1. What I am understanding is by this rule 1 of the 5 players required to have the game start mus tbe the Captain. Although I still am not sure if the coach is actually required to identify such.

[assignmentmaker]

Originally posted by BadNewsRef

Smoke, hate to stick to the subject, but did anyone really answer your question? I'm going to rephrase it and see what we get.

You are performing a formal evaluation for your local association. You have a 1st/2nd year ref performing 'R' duties for the first time in a Boys JV game. Coach refuses to provide captain for pre-game conference. After the game the young ref asks you he should have done in that situation. What do you tell him?

To tell the scorekeeper to put a 'C' next to the first starter listed (say it's #23). Tell the coach #23 is the captain. Do not discuss it further. If the coach is not polite and acquiescent . . .

[mplagrow]

Originally posted by Corndog89

Why would you refuse to talk with an assistant coach during a TO? As long as he's respectful and limits questions/comments to specific activities on the floor, why wouldn't you talk with him? Usually he's asking a question for the head coach who is talking with the team. I've listened/talked with them often, and always kept responses/discussions brief and to the point.

And yes, like everyone on this board I've seen plenty of bonehead asst coaches, but I've also dealt with plenty of asst coaches who had their s*** together. I'm always ready to listen to any calm, respectful player or coach during appropriate dead ball or TO situations.

Okay, time to go Pat Benatar on me and hit me with your best shot...fire away.

The assistant coach is not there as the mediator between me and the coach. I haven't yet met a respectful assistant coach, I guess. All they seem to do is wonder why I didn't call the foul that was so obvious to them. Or the travel. They ought to be called assistant refs, in my experience. If I actually met a pensive, respectful, knowledgeable assistant coach, I'd gladly discuss the finer points of advantage/disadvantage foul calling with him or her.

[Corndog89]

Originally posted by mplagrow

The assistant coach is not there as the mediator between me and the coach. I haven't yet met a respectful assistant coach, I guess. All they seem to do is wonder why I didn't call the foul that was so obvious to them. Or the travel. They ought to be called assistant refs, in my experience. If I actually met a pensive, respectful, knowledgeable assistant coach, I'd gladly discuss the finer points of advantage/disadvantage foul calling with him or her.

Agree that the asst coach is not a mediator between me and the coach. But I'm always open to any positive communication that helps the game. And no, I will not/do not talk with jackass asst coaches who just want to complain and show their ignorance, and they're very easy to spot. But I guess I've been fortunate over the years in dealing with many professional asst coaches.

And BTW, I'm talking HS ball only (hopefully will be able to talk college ball sometime in the future), not rec/youth league ball. My tolerance level is mighty, mighty low for almost all rec/youth league coaches because so, so many don't have a clue and are so, so willing to demonstrate their ignorance.