Help: Explanation to captain

ljudge · #1 (**permalink**) Sat Oct 15, 2005, 04:30pm

I just sent this one to my rules interp for his opinion. I'm curious as to how some of you might explain this (meaning, how much "info" I should give)....

Team A's ballon B's 30 or so yard line, 4th down and 20 or so seconds left in the half. Team A has one T/O remaining. Team A illegally shifts and makes the LTG (inbounds)...down to the 8 with 2.7 seconds left.

Situation: Would have been A's ball 1st & G at the 8. Clock will start on RFP. If B accepts (which we did) we go back 5 from previous and possible untimed down. If B declines (and A doesn't take their last timeout which they had available) it would be the half. The coach of B was livid that I eventually gave an untimed down citing this can only occur on defensive fouls. We know he needs to be informed of Fed rules, but that's not the issue.

My question is this....how much info do you give to captains? The case book always recommends at the end of a period we should inform the captain about declining a foul and that the period could potentially end, but what if the other team has timeouts? Should I take the explanation that far? Something like "if you decline I'll wind the clock but keep in mind they might take a time out and they would get a down any way so you might want to take this"

What I did was give a normal explanation and didn't get into declining the foul. Why would I? Team A had a timeout and it may have confused the team B captain.

Basically, in the end team B got the better of the possible scenarios but the coach didn't understand. Then, even worse he read the rule book at halftime and told me that the only way the offensive team can have a untimed down is if they committed a loss of down foul. He TOTALLY read that one wrong which made my explanation all that more difficult.

Last edit: Thanks Theisey. Gosh I really screwed up the A's and B's on this post. Ugh!

[Edited by ljudge on Oct 15th, 2005 at 09:03 PM]

Theisey · #2 (**permalink**) Sat Oct 15, 2005, 05:05pm

You might want to edit your post to clear up your "A"s as some should be "B"s.

A teams timeout situation should not IMHO have anything to do with penalty enforcement options given to captains. I wouldn't even mention them.
On the other hand should the coach on the offended sideline ask, of course the information should be provided as a courtesy but not phrased to indicate the other teams possible strategy to accept or decline.

BulldogMcC · #3 (**permalink**) Sat Oct 15, 2005, 05:25pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Theisey
You might want to edit your post to clear up your "A"s as some should be "B"s.

A teams timeout situation should not IMHO have anything to do with penalty enforcement options given to captains. I wouldn't even mention them.
On the other hand should the coach on the offended sideline ask, of course the information should be provided as a courtesy but not phrased to indicate the other teams possible strategy to accept or decline.

Agree, the way I would say this to B is, "You may accept the penalty for illegal shift, we will go back to the previous spot, march of 5 yards, repeat 4th down from your 35 and A will be allowed to get a play off even if time runs out prior to the snap or you may decline the penalty and have the result of the play which is 1st and Goal at the 8." I would then answer clock questions, but don't think they should be addressed by us with the captains. We always turn towards the offended sideline and say the options loud enough for the coach to hear so if the player wants to look to the sideline for assistance, the coach has heard the same thing.

shave-tail · #4 (**permalink**) Sat Oct 15, 2005, 05:49pm

I'm a little confused....after reading through 3-4-1 to which I think I just recieved a lobotmy, if the clock was still running after the play had ended (3-4-2b 3) and the clock was stopped because a penalty I would give the captain his options and reqardless of his choice when the ball is ready for play I'm starting the clock and the offensive team has 2.7 seconds to get the play off or they can take their last time out.

BulldogMcC · #5 (**permalink**) Sat Oct 15, 2005, 06:00pm

Quote:

Originally posted by shave-tail
I'm a little confused....after reading through 3-4-1 to which I think I just recieved a lobotmy, if the clock was still running after the play had ended (3-4-2b 3) and the clock was stopped because a penalty I would give the captain his options and reqardless of his choice when the ball is ready for play I'm starting the clock and the offensive team has 2.7 seconds to get the play off or they can take their last time out.

Rule 3-3-3a will extend the period, with the time remaining, you have to advise the offended team of that fact as part of their acceptance. You cannot condition it on whether A uses their last time out. If B asks if A has a time out, I will answer that question before requiring B's captain to choose an option, but I don't think adding anything into the options is appropriate.

shave-tail · #6 (**permalink**) Sat Oct 15, 2005, 06:11pm

Damn I hate our rule book!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks......

ljudge · #7 (**permalink**) Sat Oct 15, 2005, 08:07pm

Sorry guys. I edited the original post. When I sent this to my rules interp I had the school's names in the message and substituted my A's and B's for the school names. Of course I goofed as Theisey (appreciate it, seriously) pointed out but got it corrected.