Just for kicks

[The Roamin' Umpire]

I posted this highly contrived play on the NFHS forum, but it was near the bottom of a 100-post thread, so it didn't get much attention. I put it here for your amusement.

NFHS Rules
PLAY: 3/10 @ midfield. A27's legal forward pass crosses B's sideline in flight. B73, a substitute properly in his team box, is facing away from the field at the B40, jumping up and down to excite his teammates on the punt return unit. The ball strikes B73 in the back of his helmet while he's airborne, and rebounds over the field of play where (a) eligible A99 catches the pass in flight at the B35 and is downed there, or (b) safety B44 alertly grabs the ball in flight and takes it to the house. Ruling?

[HawkeyeCubP]

Incomplete pass in both situations.

2-30-4: A forward pass ends when it is caught, touches the ground or is out of bounds.

2-28-3: A loose ball is out of bounds when it touches anything, including a player or game official, who is out of bounds.

2-28-1: A player or other person is out of bounds when any part of the person is touching anything, other than another player or game official, who is on or outside the sideline or endline.

[MJT]

Originally Posted by The Roamin' Umpire

I posted this highly contrived play on the NFHS forum, but it was near the bottom of a 100-post thread, so it didn't get much attention. I put it here for your amusement.

NFHS Rules
PLAY: 3/10 @ midfield. A27's legal forward pass crosses B's sideline in flight. B73, a substitute properly in his team box, is facing away from the field at the B40, jumping up and down to excite his teammates on the punt return unit. The ball strikes B73 in the back of his helmet while he's airborne, and rebounds over the field of play where (a) eligible A99 catches the pass in flight at the B35 and is downed there, or (b) safety B44 alertly grabs the ball in flight and takes it to the house. Ruling?

TRUmpire, I know where you are going with this, and it is scary!!! I'm going to let it go and see what others have to say. I'll chip in a lot later. This will be fun!

[HawkeyeCubP]

Uh oh. Have I completely missed something? Don't leave me hanging.

[MJT]

You will see, and if no one else gets in on it, I'll let you in on what the problem seems to be later on 2nt or tom. Just think of your definitions, and how they may not "literally apply" to the situation.

[iceman70]

Roamin' Umpire made a point of stating that B73 was in the air when the ball made contact with his helmet. If you take 2-28-1 literally, the ball was not out-of-bounds when it hit B73's helmet. It would be interesting to see how many officials would have a strict interpretation of that definition, yet give themselves a mile of wiggle room regarding other rules (spirit vs. letter of the rules).

[HawkeyeCubP]

If we're going down the path of football not having the same requirements of how a person is established as being in bounds and out of bounds as basketball does, than I assume we're looking at Illegal Participation, 9-6-3? My response would be that it doesn't meet any of 9-6-4-a through f. There's nothing in this year's Case Book about this type of situation, either, that I can find.

[MJT]

and it begins...

[The Roamin' Umpire]

Originally Posted by HawkeyeCubP

If we're going down the path of football not having the same requirements of how a person is established as being in bounds and out of bounds as basketball does

I'm going to be harsh here for a moment - I apologize, but I want to make this point as strongly as possible.

No set of football rules (that I'm aware of) has the concept of "establishing" oneself in bounds or out of bounds.

Please, let's avoid bringing up this idea for the rest of the thread.

I will post my thoughts on this play when I get back from Austin on Tuesday (tomorrow will be mostly spent in transit back to Albany).

[schmitty1973]

Here's my guess... go easy on me!

2-31-15 says a Substitute becomes a player when he..."participates in a play". My guess is that it could be illegal substitution on B? If I'm correct (which I doubt), that'd be a great gadget play!!

[grantsrc]

My initial reaction is a completed pass in both since the B73 wasn't "out of bounds". There is no establishing position in football.

Does he "participate" in this play? I say no because the ball hit him and he didn't make any attempt to touch or play the ball.

I'm not going to think too much on this one. Completed pass on both accounts. Will look forward to your response. Or I guess I can just read the other post on the other forum....

[The Roamin' Umpire]

Ok, so just for the record, if this happens on my sideline, I'm ruling it incomplete.

But... I think by a technical reading of the rules, this is a completion (or interception). The pass is never out of bounds and there was no action on the part of the player hit that would count as participation.

[MJT]

Originally Posted by The Roamin' Umpire

Ok, so just for the record, if this happens on my sideline, I'm ruling it incomplete.

Ditto. That's the intent.