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Sat Oct 15, 2005, 09:49pm
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OK...1st year as an official and I had a couple situations so far this year that I just want to throw out there. In both situations I am the Linesman.
In situation #1 I have the defensive end on the far side clearly offsides. I wait for a second to see if he notices he's lined up offsides and will back up. The QB gets into his cadence and since the end doesn't back up and the snap is just about to go off I blow the play dead for encroachment. The LJ from the other side comes into the discussion I'm having with the WH and says I told that end he was not lined up offsides then looks at me and says call your side of the field, not mine. They wave off the flag. Later I ask the LJ and he says the game was essentially over and there was no reason to call those things close. Yes the opposing team had little chance of winning as their offense had about a snowball's chance in hell of getting a first down let alone a score. But the game was only like 16-0 so it wasn't out of hand or anything. Anyhow I just chalked it up as experience and moved on. Situation #2. A sweep around the opposite end. Game is essentially over 32-0 and only a minute left. I see a hold at the point of attack but I remembered the lesson before "call your area not anyone elses." so I ignore it. I wanted to throw the flag cause I hate it when people try to run up the score...but I kept my opinion out of it and kept my flag in my pocket. After the game I ask the WH and LJ why they let the obvious hold go...I mean the kid damn near tore the defensive player jersey off. They both said they didn't see it and asked why if I saw it I didn't flag it. I told them the experience from the prior game and they said that is wrong...you see it you flag it. Now I'm a little confused. Both sets of crews I worked with are very experienced officials so who is right? Do I need to adjust how I call a game based on my counterparts? That don't seem right? My conclusion was that I will call what I see from now on and and that's that....but I wanted to see what everyone's opinion is. I don't want to piss off a bunch of experienced officials here locally as I would like to learn from each of them. 
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Sat Oct 15, 2005, 10:50pm
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I understand your confusion. In your post you do not indicate if you are doing Jr. High, JV, or Varsity. I know some officials will tell you there should not be any difference in what you call....I would say that the first 2 are developmental in nature including the officals and what you call and do not call are different from Friday night. As a more experienced official I would never allow my flag to be picked up on a judgement call. However, when I was first starting out, I would throw a flag and after discussing the play with the WH I didn't fully understand the rule and I would pick up the flag (that's what I mean by developmental). I would also say that getting the call correct is what it's about..If you see it, throw it. You do have areas that are specific to your position but that doesn't mean you have blinders on. If I had my choice I would work with the second crew as much as possible. In your first example depending on the level play you might want pass given the game situation. Thing is, I don't understand why they wanted to pick up the flag...The clock was stopped....step off the 5 and start the clock. However, on the second play I would flag that everytime no matter what level of play or time on the clock. Hang in there...you will find a crew you are comfortable with.
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Sun Oct 16, 2005, 02:11am
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When I call a game I try to evaluate whether throwing a flag is appropriate.
1) Is it a safety issue? 2) Is it at the point of attack? 3) Did one team gain an unfair advantage? 4) Is it a stadium call? If the answer to any question is yes, then I drop the flag. If the answer is not yes, I may drop the flag, but more than likely would not. In your offered scenerios, if I felt the far side DE was encroaching, I would not drop the flag if I had an opposing wing. I would have held my flag and spoken with him about it during downs at the next opportunity. In the second case I would have thrown it as it was relevant to the play. That said, I am a little suspicious of where you were watching on a sweep to the far sideline. Your area of responisiblity is to watch the neutral zone blocking to the far tackle and observe action on the linebackers and backside pursuit. I think it would be hard to be focusing on your keys and see a hold at the point of attack on an end run to the opposite sideline. Having read your post, my gut instinct is the second crew is the better crew because they wanted to get the call right while the first crew was more concerned with how they looked. Granted, that is based on their reactions to one play each.
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See the ball, insure its dead Then the whistle, not ahead
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Sun Oct 16, 2005, 05:44pm
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Quote:
In a nut shell it means any obvious foul by a team that everyone in the stadium has seen. A prime example is the defensive encroachment. B enters the NZ but immediately retreats. Has he gained an advantage? Is it a safety issue? Does it have anything to do with the point of attack? No to all three, but everyone saw it so we have to call it. The interior lineman holds I see as an umpire also fall into a greyer area. They have to be at the point of attack or be holding a defensive player that will be part of the developing play before I throw my flag. I am the only one that see these. Coaches might be guessing about them, but I doubt they can see them even when the complain about ones I let go. To do otherwise would result in spending half of the 4+ hours it would take to complete a game marching off yardage penalties.
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See the ball, insure its dead Then the whistle, not ahead
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Mon Oct 17, 2005, 12:21pm
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Sit 1 - As a general rule, wingmen officiate the neutral zone on their side of the ball. But that said, I think formation and where the ball is spotted could also be a factor. Say the ball is spotted on the inbound spot nearest you and the LJ has a split end on his sideline. Who is closer? That is a time where your partner may appreciate the help. This is something that wingmen can discuss prior to the game so each has an understanding as to how the other works.
Turn the situation around - what if you had told a DE on your side he was "OK" and the LJ had thrown his flag for encroachment. Would you think the LJ was over officiating? Sit 2 - I agree with Bulldog, you were probably officiating the wrong area if you saw that foul.
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Tue Oct 18, 2005, 01:42pm
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Quote:
As for situation 2...I was watching the backside and slowly moving towards the center of the field careful not to go too far. Basically keeping the closest players about 10 yards in towards the center from me. I really don't know what caused me to look away from my area but you know how something can just catch the corner of your eye and draw your attention. That's what happen with the hold. I saw a jersey being pulled and shoulder pads showing. But because of situation 1 I didn't call it and went back to watching my area. Basically your comments show exactly what my question is. How do you keep from "OVER OFFICIATING" and at the same time calling what needs to be called...regardless of whether it's "YOUR" call or not? It seems an odd, undefined line that I need to learn.
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Tue Oct 18, 2005, 02:28pm
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If you are watching your area, then it's impossible to see a foul in someone elses area. If your watching their area, then who is watching yours. I had an official for a jr. high game throw a flag in my area. I then asked him if he seen the wide receiver brought down by his face mask, and he said he didn't see it. It didn't happen, but I told him he wouldn't have seen it since he was watching my area and not his.
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Tue Oct 18, 2005, 02:47pm
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"Fishing in someone else's pond". Had a JV game last week. Play went to my right (as the R) the LJ and I had the play boxed in. A1 blocked B1 directly from the side, obviously not in the back. The L throws his flag from across the field. We wave it off. At half we were ribbing him about fishing in our pond and he said "I didn't see the whole block but it looked like it was in the back". Now why would he be throwing a flag across the field when he states he didn't see the whole block. Moral of the story is that the Official's Manual has keys and assignments for each official and it's a tremendous help.
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Tue Oct 18, 2005, 02:58pm
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We've all had coaches plead for flags in areas where we had no business looking. I'm a wingman, I'm downfield on pass plays, I shouldn't be in any position to watch the QB, no matter how hard it is to not look back. If he gets whacked, I'm trusting my U and WH are watching that action.
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Tue Oct 18, 2005, 04:17pm
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For the first situation, you were wrong in throwing the flag. The reason being, that man is the LJ's responsibility. How do you know that he didn't ask the LJ if he was ok where he was? Pre-snap, you should be looking at players on your side of the formation.
Situation #2: In a 3-man crew, if you're "lucky" enough to actually see one of the 11 players getting held, you should throw the flag. You're outmanned. If you see it, you gotta call it, because there's dozens of them that you didn't see during the game. Many officials give up long before the players do. Do not allow game situations to dictate your officiating of the game. What is a foul at 0-0 in the first quarter, should be a foul at 14-14 in the fourth, or even 28-0 in the fourth. If the players are out there playing, you should be out there officiating. Keep in mind that in blowout games, when some officials are just counting down the clock and could care less about the football being played 2 things are likely happening 1) Frustration could be getting the better of some players and thus, you could begin to see more cheap shots or attempts to injure an opponent. 2) Reserve players, who do not get very much playing time could be entering the field. And these players deserve the game to be administered as you would the starters when the game was close. When the score is lopsided, that is when you need to do your best officiating. That is when most of the potentially bad things can/will occur. In a tight game, especially one that is well-played, you will find that you are as much a spectator as an official, since games like this can often officiate themselves.
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Tue Oct 18, 2005, 04:21pm
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Quote:
You were given 4 or 5 excellent points by BulldogMcC and a couple of ideas from me. I would also add See the whole foul. You seem more determined to justify your calls than listening to those suggestions. But the answer to your ultimate question is experience and learning from those experiences (notice I did not say mistakes). Experience will help you filter Bulldogs suggestions quickly and react appropriately. I have a theory about the different phases that an official has to go through to become a good official . Phase I They wouldnt know a foul if they saw it and probably are too intimidated to throw it even then. Phase II They see everything and throw everything because that is the rule and someone has to enforce it. Phase III They see everything and use their experiences to filter out the fouls that matter And every official has to go through that process to so extent. Some progress quicker than others. Some never make it out of phase II. You can ask all the questions, even listen to some but you have to experience a situation to really learn from it. When I was in my fourth or fifth year of officiating, I observed an obvious pass interference on the LJs side of the field just outside the hash marks. It was so obvious; I thought I was throwing a support flag for his call. And of course you guessed it, no flag from the LJ. Now we walked it off the penalty but it took many games working with that official before I earned his trust again. It broke me from throwing supporting flags. If I throw a flag it is because I thought it was a foul. It also taught me to officiate my area. I needed to trust an official to work his area even if I think he missed a call. And if I see too many of his mistakes, I'm not doing my job.
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Tue Oct 18, 2005, 08:52pm
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Quote:
In situation #1 though I still don't agree that I must watch only my side of the LOS. I mean why should that other official tell the kid that he was "OK"? He shouldn't and you can get way too much of an advantage by lining up offsides. What would I think of the other official if it happen to me? Well, I'd think he was covering a mistake for me...but the last thing I'd do is run into the conference they were having and force the flag to be picked up. In fact I'd be embarrassed for telling the kid he was lined up correctly when he obviously wasn't. This is of course my opinion...but judging from the responces I've gotten on this forum and the responces I got from some officials in person...I guess I'm wrong. Which is fine...that's what the forum is for...for me to be wrong and learn. Right?!? Anyhow...I looked back at my post and maybe I'm being too defensive. I played a lot of years, I've been a coach and now I'm an official. The last thing I'd want to be accused of is being "an over officious jerk". Especially being accused by another official as such. I did not move to being an official to control anything....I simply did it to be involved in the game I love. I would still coach but I don't have the time to do that anymore. Now two games a week as an official is all I can do.
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