Odd penalty sequence question

[chapmaja]

Heard about this from a friend. Don't know if its true, but am I correct in how it should have been handled by the officials.

Last 30 seconds of the game. Team A has the ball A49 yard line. 3rd and 20 (holding penalty on a previous play, plus a couple incompletions). During the play, A63 commits a holding penalty, while A82 commits a personal fould facemask. As the QB scrambles, he crosses the LOS by a couple yards before throwing a pass (from B48 yard line) which is complete deep into Team B territory, (illegal forward pass penalty is called). After the play, A88 taunts an opponent. When he is flagged for taunting he rips his helmet off and throws it to the bench as he walks off the field. B80 then taunts A88 as he is being walked off the field.

My understanding of this situation is we have three live ball fouls. Holding on A63, PF Facemask on A82, and an illegal forward pass. The defense has the option of which of these penalties to accept (they chose the IFP, with its loss of down). After those penalties are enforced, the two unsportsmanlike conduct penalties are accessed against A88, which results in his disqualifiation from the game. B80 is also accessed an unsportsmanlike and is disqualified (state rules, taunting equals disqualification). The officials then mark off the penalty yardage (5 yards?) from the sport of the IFP, plus 15 yards for the unsportsmanlike conduct which was not offset. Thus following this mess we should have 4th down and forever at A's 32 yard line correct?

My friend told me the officials ruled everything offset on the play and they replayed the down from the A49 yard line. He didn't think it was right, and I'm sure he is correct, but I'm not positive my penalties are right.

This was a JV game last fall between two schools who have a history of bad blood between them and questionable ethics within their coaching staffs.

[Rich]

5 yards from the spot of the pass, LOD. All the dead ball stuff is handled after that.

If the crew offset everything, they're wrong. There is no live ball B foul to offset the live ball A fouls.


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[Robert Goodman]

My only question would be whether time expired for the game. Since you described a long live ball sequence as occurring "last 30 seconds", I could imagine its having consumed it all.

Assuming no touchdown was scored, team B could then decline the penalties and the dead ball fouls never officially occurred, because the game was over. If a touchdown did occur, team B could accept the penalty for illegal forward pass, and with the loss of down the game would still be over, and still no dead ball fouls. If the league they're in wants to assess additional outside-the-game penalties (suspension, no cookies, whatever) for the players' behavior afterward, that's on them.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman

My only question would be whether time expired for the game. Since you described a long live ball sequence as occurring "last 30 seconds", I could imagine its having consumed it all.

Assuming no touchdown was scored, team B could then decline the penalties and the dead ball fouls never officially occurred, because the game was over. If a touchdown did occur, team B could accept the penalty for illegal forward pass, and with the loss of down the game would still be over, and still no dead ball fouls. If the league they're in wants to assess additional outside-the-game penalties (suspension, no cookies, whatever) for the players' behavior afterward, that's on them.

Good point, no, the game did not end on that play.

[CT1]

I agree with the OP’s outcome. 2 of the 3 DB fouls offset, leaving one to be assessed against A.

[OkieZebra]

I've heard tell of places that would want just one penalty to be assessed against A88 (though that one would be an ejection). That would result in one UNS to each side and no distance for them. I'm not entirely sure how I like it by itself, but it seems a better fit when there's an automatic DQ for taunting by state choice.


Also don't think that ruling the fouls never officially occurred is the right way to handle it happening if we have them on a down where time expires with a loss of down. They won't be enforced due to the loss of down, but are part of the game and need to be reported to the state. And I'm definitely doing that in a game like this.

My hypothetical miked up spiel for all 6 fouls where time expired might be something like this...

"There are multiple fouls on the play. Holding, offense, that penalty is declined. Personal foul, facemask, offense, that penalty is declined. Illegal forward pass, offense, five yard penalty from the spot of the foul, loss of down. After the play, unsportsmanlike conduct, offense, the player is disqualified. Unsportsmanlike conduct, defense, the player is disqualified. Those penalties offset. Unsportsmanlike conduct, offense. As time expired during the play, we will not repeat the down due to the loss of down foul. Ball game."

... I'm not sure there's ever a good way to report six fouls.