Live ball ejections for fighting.

[Eww67]

Team A faces 3rd and 14 at there 32 they attempt a screen pass which is incomplete. A DT and QB begin tussling each player throwing punches. Both players were given personnel fouls and ejected. The 15 yard penalty was enforced against the defense and a first down given to the 47. Then the 15 yards vs the offense was marked off. Final outcome offense 1st and 10 at the 32. Was this correct?

[jblowery]

I'll take a stab. This doesn't seem right to me. I think live ball fouls would off-set leaving you with 3rd and 14 again. Dead ball fouls would also cancel each other out leaving you with 4th and 14. Enforce in the order that they occur but the chains aren't technically re-set until the ready for play.

[OKREF]

I have a hard time envisioning this as a live ball foul. If the QB is involved, it would almost assuredly be after the incomplete pass, which would make it a dead ball. But if they were live ball, I would agree the above. Either replay 3rd down for live ball fouls, or its 4th down if they were dead ball fouls.

[Matt]

Maybe there was a live-ball foul on B and a dead-ball foul on A?

[MD Longhorn]

Matt's guess is the only possible answer that would have resulted in what the officials did.

If these were truly live ball fouls (I find that very hard to believe), it's 3rd down and 14. If these were dead ball fouls (much more likely), it's 4th and 14.

[Welpe]

If they were both live ball fouls or both dead ball fouls then they should have offset.

[MTUMP]

Originally Posted by Welpe

If they were both live ball fouls or both dead ball fouls then they should have offset.

Both players still ejected though....

[Welpe]

Absolutely.

[HLin NC]

Assuming we are talking Fed on this one, 10-2-5 was changed last year to offset if both fouls occurred before the next live ball.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by HLin NC

Assuming we are talking Fed on this one, 10-2-5 was changed last year to offset if both fouls occurred before the next live ball.

Hate to be pedantic but they offset if both fouls occur before penalty administration is completed.

[BoomerSooner]

Is it possible that the penalty against B was for roughing the passer (and thus a live ball foul) followed by a dead ball foul against A for retaliating?

[HLin NC]

Hate to be pedantic but they offset if both fouls occur before penalty administration is completed

Just using the verbiage from last year's Fed PPT.

[HLin NC]

Does't explain the double ejections unless the RTP was deemed flagrant, which I've never seen.

[Robert Goodman]

Originally Posted by HLin NC

Does't explain the double ejections unless the RTP was deemed flagrant, which I've never seen.

But it wouldn't be hard, if the B player went flying in with a fist, or maybe a forearm to the chops, and the passer responded in kind.

[chapmaja]

We had this happen in a local game I was at a couple weeks ago.

Team A has the B 4th and 11at about midfield.

Team A is penalized for an illegal formation, but the punter drops the snap and has to fall on the ball. After he is clearly down, a player for Team B dives in and spears the punter.

The officials marked off both penalties but it remained 4th down and 1 yard to go. (The team went for it and made it on 4th and 1).

This is what I thought the penalty mark off should have been. Illegal formation, defense declines the penalty, then after the play that ended the Team A possession, Team B is penalized for the flagrant contact foul. The penalty would be 15 yards from where the play ended and team B would have a first and 10.

It did not matter in the game as it was a 28 point game (Team A winning), at the time anyway.