Shooting Foul? (Video)

[xyrph]

Thank you. There were six simultaneous games in the gym. That whistle was from one of the adjacent games. Afterward he signals player 15.

[OKREF]

Since the foul was called on 15 I can live with no shots.

[APG]

Originally Posted by xyrph

Thank you. There were six simultaneous games in the gym. That whistle was from one of the adjacent games. Afterward he signals player 15.

I'm putting her on the line

Originally Posted by xyrph

Thank you. Can you elaborate?

Originally Posted by xyrph

Thank you. There were six simultaneous games in the gym. That whistle was from one of the adjacent games. Afterward he signals player 15.

I'm pretty sure the whistle for this foul is the one I hear when Lead puts his arm up. I didn't know there was confusion about which whistle was which, I thought it was clear.

Contact by #15 is marginal, this should be a good bucket and foul on #21. I can see why he would wave off the shot if he got #15 for the foul, but he would be incorrect in doing so.

[ODog]

Yup, based on his decision to whistle 15 for a foul, the rest of it he handled correctly in terms of administration.

But I agree with AremRed: Score the basket and award one free throw for the foul on 21.

[JetMetFan]

If the foul was called on #15 White the goal should have counted. The BH/D had started her shooting motion. She didn't dribble again after the whistle so continuous motion was still in play.

[JRutledge]

Yes it should be a shooting foul.

Peace

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

If the foul was called on #15 White the goal should have counted. The BH/D had started her shooting motion. She didn't dribble again after the whistle so continuous motion was still in play.

I agree however I think most refs (myself included) are really bad at giving a shooting foul that close to the gather due to the lengthy time and distance before the release. Incorrect by rule, but I see it happen a lot.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I agree however I think most refs (myself included) are really bad at giving a shooting foul that close to the gather due to the lengthy time and distance before the release. Incorrect by rule, but I see it happen a lot.

I was waiting for someone else to say that

If the calling official just waits a beat after blowing his whistle he might have gotten it right. It would have given him time to process:

*She stopped dribbling...
*10 feet from the basket...
*With no teammates in sight, therefore...
*What the heck else was she going to do other than shoot?

Also, had he switched after the foul his partner might have been able to give him a nudge in the right direction by gently - and quietly - asking, "Are we counting that?"

If he still was going to (incorrectly) call it a non-shooting foul he really needed to be less nonchalant about waving off the goal. The way he did it tells me he had an "oh crap, that wasn't supposed to happen" moment when the ball went in.

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

I was waiting for someone else to say that

If the calling official just waits a beat after blowing his whistle he might have gotten it right. It would have given him time to process:

*She stopped dribbling...
*10 feet from the basket...
*With no teammates in sight, therefore...
*What the heck else was she going to do other than shoot?

Also, had he switched after the foul his partner might have been able to give him a nudge in the right direction by gently - and quietly - asking, "Are we counting that?"

If he still was going to (incorrectly) call it a non-shooting foul he really needed to be less nonchalant about waving off the goal. The way he did it tells me he had an "oh crap, that wasn't supposed to happen" moment when the ball went in.

It really is amazing what whistle timing can do for you. I've noticed my call percentages go up as I wait for the play to finish and then decide whether I need a whistle. There are lots of plays that start out as marginal (like the OP play) and develop into something more obvious that needs calling.

I'm not totally sure that suggesting a change to your partner during a switch is a good idea. If you want him to get it as shooting you should get to him before he leaves the area to go report and have a brief chat there. Plus given the narrow-minded view of continuation by most coaches I doubt the opposing coach would be very happy in getting your partner to change his call so late on something that looks like NBA-length continuation.

Lead in the OP does need to sell it better, but perhaps it's perfect for the level of play that he desires to work.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by AremRed

It really is amazing what whistle timing can do for you. I've noticed my call percentages go up as I wait for the play to finish and then decide whether I need a whistle. There are lots of plays that start out as marginal (like the OP play) and develop into something more obvious that needs calling.

I'm not totally sure that suggesting a change to your partner during a switch is a good idea. If you want him to get it as shooting you should get to him before he leaves the area to go report and have a brief chat there. Plus given the narrow-minded view of continuation by most coaches I doubt the opposing coach would be very happy in getting your partner to change his call so late on something that looks like NBA-length continuation.

Lead in the OP does need to sell it better, but perhaps it's perfect for the level of play that he desires to work.

It's not really suggesting, it's just planting a seed. On the flip side...during a camp I attended this month there was a play similar to the OP. I was T and my partner - who is one of my mentors - made the call at L (3-person). As she walked past me while we're switching she says, so only I can hear, "You have her shooting?" I said yes, she reported it as a shooting foul and we lined them up. No long conversation. One quiet question, one quiet answer. She wasn't completely sure so she asked.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I agree however I think most refs (myself included) are really bad at giving a shooting foul that close to the gather due to the lengthy time and distance before the release. Incorrect by rule, but I see it happen a lot.

I do not know about anybody else but I have never had a problem with calling this a foul in the act of shooting no matter how far out the foul was as long as it meets the requirements of the rule.

MTD, Sr.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

If the foul was called on #15 White the goal should have counted. The BH/D had started her shooting motion. She didn't dribble again after the whistle so continuous motion was still in play.

I agree. I can't see anything worth calling on #15, but even so, waving off the shot unfairly punishes the offense. I've got continuous motion here.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Adam

I agree. I can't see anything worth calling on #15, but even so, waving off the shot unfairly punishes the offense. I've got continuous motion here.

I don't see anything worth calling on 15 either. But, even it there was a foul that could considered a shooting foul, the basket can't count.

She traveled....and it wasn't really that close. She picked up the ball as she with her left foot on the floor (well before the right came back down), she stepped on the right, then stepped again to the left, then, after a clear delay, released the ball. The catch at the beginning and the release at the end were well separated from the foot necessary foot movements so it isn't even splitting a hair to determine that she traveled.

It is no different than a player who jumps to shoot, is fouled, then lands before releasing and making the shot. No shot, going to the line for 2.

[Raymond]

Lot more to discuss on this play other than "shooting or not shooting".