Shooting Foul? (Video)

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I agree however I think most refs (myself included) are really bad at giving a shooting foul that close to the gather due to the lengthy time and distance before the release. Incorrect by rule, but I see it happen a lot.

I do not know about anybody else but I have never had a problem with calling this a foul in the act of shooting no matter how far out the foul was as long as it meets the requirements of the rule.

MTD, Sr.

[Rich]

Take an extra second -- much easier to sell a shooting foul if the whistle comes a beat later. And you may decide (by letting the play finish) that it's not actually a foul.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

If the foul was called on #15 White the goal should have counted. The BH/D had started her shooting motion. She didn't dribble again after the whistle so continuous motion was still in play.

I agree. I can't see anything worth calling on #15, but even so, waving off the shot unfairly punishes the offense. I've got continuous motion here.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Adam

I agree. I can't see anything worth calling on #15, but even so, waving off the shot unfairly punishes the offense. I've got continuous motion here.

I don't see anything worth calling on 15 either. But, even it there was a foul that could considered a shooting foul, the basket can't count.

She traveled....and it wasn't really that close. She picked up the ball as she with her left foot on the floor (well before the right came back down), she stepped on the right, then stepped again to the left, then, after a clear delay, released the ball. The catch at the beginning and the release at the end were well separated from the foot necessary foot movements so it isn't even splitting a hair to determine that she traveled.

It is no different than a player who jumps to shoot, is fouled, then lands before releasing and making the shot. No shot, going to the line for 2.

[Raymond]

Lot more to discuss on this play other than "shooting or not shooting".

[deecee]

This is a shooting foul at the time of the whistle. It should have been a no-call and a patient whistle would have created that outcome.

EDIT: There is a traveling but it's very close and requires slo-mo. One that in real time will more than likely go missed.

[OKREF]

Just throwing this out there, and the time of the whistle, it doesn't look like she had started a habitual shooting motion. Just picking up a dribble doesn't necessarily constitute a shooting motion.

Originally Posted by OKREF

Just throwing this out there, and the time of the whistle, it doesn't look like she had started a habitual shooting motion. Just picking up a dribble doesn't necessarily constitute a shooting motion.

Depends on the rule set.

[APG]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Just throwing this out there, and the time of the whistle, it doesn't look like she had started a habitual shooting motion. Just picking up a dribble doesn't necessarily constitute a shooting motion.

NCAA-M is the only rule set where I wouldn't be giving the player shots.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Depends on the rule set.

NFHS. It is a shot if the player has started their "habitual shooting motion".

Rule 4.41.3 The try starts when the player begins the motion which habitually precedes the release of the ball.

To me it doesn't look like she starts her shot until after the whistle.

[Stat-Man]

It looked like she carried the ball between :03 and :04

Originally Posted by OKREF

NFHS. It is a shot if the player has started their "habitual shooting motion".

Rule 4.41.3 The try starts when the player begins the motion which habitually precedes the release of the ball.

To me it doesn't look like she starts her shot until after the whistle.

Correct. The NFHS and NBA both consider the gather to be the beginning of the "motion which habitually precedes the release of the ball" whereas NCAA-M specifically requires upward motion to be considered shooting.

Originally Posted by Stat-Man

It looked like she carried the ball between :03 and :04

Marginal.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Correct. The NFHS and NBA both consider the gather to be the beginning of the "motion which habitually precedes the release of the ball" whereas NCAA-M specifically requires upward motion to be considered shooting.

They do? Not in any place I've seen (NFHS). First, there the NFHS doesn't even have the concept of "gather". In fact, neither does the NCAA despite how many people use that term.. I can't say about the NBA. To me, a "gather", even in NFHS, is not sufficient to determine it to be a shot. I need just a bit more for it to be a shot...some movement, once the ball is held, that normally leads to a shot. Simply picking up the ball is just not enough.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by deecee

This is a shooting foul at the time of the whistle. It should have been a no-call and a patient whistle would have created that outcome.

Agree.

Originally Posted by deecee

EDIT: There is a traveling but it's very close and requires slo-mo. One that in real time will more than likely go missed.

If that is close, I'd love to see what it takes for it to not be close for you. To me, this one is pretty obvious, even at full speed and a horrible angle.