Scrum in lane, control gained with two knees on the ground...

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

If you have the play in your game and don't call a travel, the game will move on and nobody will say a thing afterwards. I wouldn't exhaust myself trying to convince others.

If you call an over-the-back or reaching foul, few people will say anything either but that doesn't make it right.

The travel rules are actually pretty clear. If it isn't listed as legal, it is a travel.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

If you call an over-the-back or reaching foul, few people will say anything either but that doesn't make it right.

The travel rules are actually pretty clear. If it isn't listed as legal, it is a travel.

That is some people's interpretation.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

That is some people's interpretation.

It isn't an interpretation...it is explicitly stated in black and white in the rule book.

Traveling is moving a foot or feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits while holding the ball. The limits on foot movements are as follows:...

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

It isn't an interpretation...it is explicitly stated in black and white in the rule book.

If is so explicitly spelled out why do you have to use words like "basically" and "translation" to spell out your reading of the rule? Explicitly means it is spelled out in black and white and you can point directly to it.

The prescribed limits are as follows:

A player who catches the ball with both feet on the floor, may pivot, using either foot. When one foot is lifted, the other is the pivot foot.
Not violated by this situation

A player, who catches the ball while moving or dribbling, may stop, and establish a pivot foot as follows:
Doesn't apply to this situation

After coming to a stop and establishing a pivot foot:

a. The pivot foot may be lifted, but not returned to the floor, before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal.

b. If the player jumps, neither foot may be returned to the floor before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal.

c. The pivot foot may not be lifted before the ball is released, to start a *dribble.
Not violated by this situation

After coming to a stop when neither foot can be a pivot:

a. One or both feet may be lifted, but may not be returned to the floor before the ball is released on a pass or try for goal.

b. Neither foot may be lifted before the ball is released, to start a dribble.
Not violated by this situation

A player holding the ball:

a. May not touch the floor with a knee or any other part of the body other than hand or foot.

b. After gaining control while on the floor and touching with other than hand or foot, may not attempt to get up or stand.
Applies to this situation. "Attempt to get up or stand" is explicitly" spelled out as going from one knee to a standing position in the case book. Anything else is INTERPRETATION.

4.44.5D could easily have been written as "one or both knees", but instead they specifically said "one knee".

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

If is so explicitly spelled out why do you have to use words like "basically" and "translation" to spell out your reading of the rule? Explicitly means it is spelled out in black and white and you can point directly to it.

I used those words to try to explain it to those who don't want to see it.

It says the allowed foot movements are listed and anything other foot movement is a travel.

Do you see anywhere that where it says a player can move from two knees to one foot?

No. Therefore, it is a travel.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I used those words to try to explain it to those who don't want to see it.

It says the allowed foot movements are listed and anything other foot movement is a travel.

Do you see anywhere that where it says a player can move from two knees to one foot?

No. Therefore, it is a travel.

None of the limits of foot movements prescribed in 4-44-1/2/3/4 are violated. 4-44-5 only states what a player may not do. 4-44-5b applies to this situation. Other than going from one knee to 2 feet, "Attempt to get up" is open to interpretation.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

None of the limits of foot movements prescribed in 4-44-1/2/3/4 are violated. 4-44-5 only states what a player may not do. 4-44-5b applies to this situation. Other than going from one knee to 2 feet, "Attempt to get up" is open to interpretation.

But the only interpretation that matters is that of the official.

"In my judgement s/he was attempting to get up."

I agree with Cam......

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

None of the limits of foot movements prescribed in 4-44-1/2/3/4 are violated. 4-44-5 only states what a player may not do. 4-44-5b applies to this situation. Other than going from one knee to 2 feet, "Attempt to get up" is open to interpretation.

The travel rule is unlike most other rules. Instead of listing what is illegal (making unlisted items legal) it lists all the legal options for foot movement. Any foot movement not listed is illegal. And it doesn't qualify it by the starting position.

Show me where it says they can move to one foot. If you can't, it is, by rule, illegal.

Art 5b is there to say that it is legal to be on the floor when they obtain possession otherwise, Art. 5a would make it a violation to even grab the ball while on the floor. It does say they can not get up.

Regardless of how you interpret "Get Up", the restrictions on what foot movements are legal from the rest of the rule don't go away. If the player puts a foot on the floor on any way other than what is listed in Art 1-4, they have done so in a way that is not listed making it a travel.