Scrum in lane, control gained with two knees on the ground...

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Rooster

This is what made me question myself: I'm not sure A1 was attempting to stand. Applying the "improving his position" principle however, makes it clear to me that it was a violation. FWIW, my P called the violation. I laid off because I wasn't sure and we discussed it during a dead ball. He said he called it because it looked funny...

Not travelling in the NCAA rule set.

Judgment in NFHS.

Never seen "improving his position" in the rule book.

[Rooster]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Never seen "improving his position" in the rule book.

That's why I used the term "principle." Probably should have used the term "idea."

I think I get what you're saying. I should use rulebook verbiage to explain my rationale.

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by Rooster

That's why I used the term "principle." Probably should have used the term "idea."

I think I get what you're saying. I should use rulebook verbiage to explain my rationale.

I'd have gone with "A player or a team should not be permitted an advantage which is not intended by a rule" instead of improving his position, but the "idea" is the same in my opinion. Without this concept, is there anything that would stop the player from "walking" on his/her knees without attempting to stand up?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

... is there anything that would stop the player from "walking" on his/her knees without attempting to stand up?

To start a dribble, the ball must be released before the pivot knee is lifted.

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

To start a dribble, the ball must be released before the pivot knee is lifted.

And then there was the travelling call I witnessed, on a player holding the ball while sitting on his buttocks . . .(as explained to me at halftime by the calling official) - "He changed from one butt cheek to the other" . . .

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

"He changed from one butt cheek to the other" . . .

"Jesus says 'to turn the other cheek' and while I can agree with that, I've only got two, so after that, all bets are off." (Unknown)

There are two Internet rules, Godwin's Law and the inevitability of an Officiating.com forum discussion on traveling bringing up the "pivot cheek".

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Never seen "improving his position" in the rule book.

translation: "attempt to get up or stand"

"Traveling is moving a foot or feet in any direction in excess of prescribed limits while holding the ball."

In the case of traveling rule, the legal actions are enumerated and all other foot movement is illegal. I don't see any place that says a player can move from two knees to one knee and a foot. Therefore, by rule, it is traveling when that foot touched the floor, but not with just lifting the knee.