put ball in play across the lane?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by jpgc99

I had a game several years ago where the coach asked for the inbound spot to be moved to the other side of the basket. This was legal as the team had the end line to run. The coach didn't make the request until the team was already out and we were almost ready to go.

So I had to move over and get the new L and C to adjust. This took some time for them to recognize and understand what was happening, which gave the defense quite a bit of additional time to set up.

The coach of he inbounding team was unhappy that the defense had this extra time to match up, but it was his own fault for insisting we inbound on the opposite side.

There's little benefit to moving to the other side, but if the team asks I will always do it and force the L and C to adjust. It's really not that big of a deal. I do not bounce the ball across the lane.

When this happened to me, I had a player ask for me right after a basket was made after a final free throw (I was the Lead), "Can I take the ball to the other side?" I said "Sure, you can run over there." I thought he was only asking about his ability to run the end line. And there was a substitution which was the only reason I was administering the throw-in at all.

When I gave the player the ball, as I was coming up by the bench (it was the first half) the coach started yelling, "Read the rulebook....read the rulebook....read the rulebook." By the third one of those, I gave a technical foul. Now it was like a 2 or 3 point game at the time and all that did was take the ball out of their hand and give it to the other team.

I later had an assistant coach come to me and tell me that they wanted the ball to actually be taken to the opposite side of the lane and that other officials apparently allowed this to happen. Then after the game, the coach wrote a letter to the assignor telling me how much I needed to be a better officials by his so-called vast experience as a coach. When I even discussed they situation with my partners after the game or half-time, they were very confused by the request and said they would have wondered what the heck I would be doing if I went to the other side. It might have taken several seconds to recognize the switch.

And to emphasize how silly this coach was, I have not seen him since or never saw that program have any success since (which he clearly is not there anymore).

And the fact you said that the coach was mad because it took time and the defense was allowed to set up, tells me how silly coaches can be. They think they can tell us what to do and we just follow without having responsibilities.

Originally Posted by jpgc99

I think the ncaa women's mechanic allows the bounce across (or at least it did at one point). Someone that works ncaa-w please correct me if I'm wrong.

I know nothing about NCAA Women's Mechanics other than what I hear or read occasionally. But the few games I have watched I never see officials do this. I am not sure why, but that appears to be something that is not practiced very often.

Peace

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I know nothing about NCAA Women's Mechanics other than what I hear or read occasionally. But the few games I have watched I never see officials do this. I am not sure why, but that appears to be something that is not practiced very often.

Peace

See ^^^

Trust me, we do it every game. As often as possible

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

See ^^^

Trust me, we do it every game. As often as possible

I can say when I watch NCAA or lower level college games, I cannot recall seeing it done. Maybe it is those in your areas that want to do it and others that choose not to. Just like any mechanic that involves people all over the country, officials do not all do things with the same level of emphasis.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Made basket. Dead ball timeout immediately after the ball passes through the basket. There will be a run the endline throwin after the timeout.

Where does the administering official put the ball in play?

I have never seen this addressed in any mechanics manual, either IAABO, or NFHS.

If I'm the administering official, I just put it in play on the side that I was on as the old lead (becoming new trail), either table side, or opposite table side, when the timeout was requested. I was never taught to do it this way, it just seemed natural.

I've had partners who have put the ball in play on the side opposite from where their partner is standing (two person Connecticut), administer on the our table side if it was a sixty second timeout, administer on the opposite table side if it was a thirty second timeout. I'm not as comfortable doing this, but I'm flexible, and will go along with my partner.

How could the NFHS, or IAABO, have gone this far, after decades of fiddling around, trying to improve mechanics guidelines, and not have come up with a mechanic guideline to cover this procedure? I know that they cannot cover every single possibility, but it seems like they should have, at least, covered this.

One thing that we have to do, here in my little corner of Connecticut, according to our mechanics guidelines, is to stand, during the timeout, with the ball, at the spot where we will administer the throwin after the timeout. If we need to leave that spot to confer with partner, we are instructed to leave the ball at that spot.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

How could the NFHS, or IAABO, have gone this far, after decades of fiddling around, trying to improve mechanics guidelines, and not have come up with a mechanic guideline to cover this procedure? I know that they cannot cover every single possibility, but it seems like they should have, at least, covered this.

No one has ever cared. Obviously the only people that care are a couple of coaches that obviously have too much to worry about as the vast majority of coaches never cared either way, because they coach their players to do whatever we do in this situation.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

One thing that we have to do, here in my little corner of Connecticut, according to our mechanics guidelines, is to stand, during the timeout, with the ball, at the spot where we will administer the throwin after the timeout. If we need to leave that spot to confer with partner, we are instructed to leave the ball at that spot.

That is the NF mechanic too. But again, mechanics are guidelines not hard fast rules.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... mechanics are guidelines not hard fast rules.

From your post (and many previous posts, in many previous threads), mechanics sound like they are not hard fast rules where you officiate, and that's fine, where you officiate; but mechanics (and signals) are hard fast rules here in my little corner of Connecticut. Cadets (rookie officials) are taught IAABO mechanics, utilizing both the written manual, and floor training, and all officials are expected to use them, and to do otherwise may negatively impact one's ratings, ranking, and the number, and level of games, that one is assigned. This will impact rookie officials, and veteran officials, alike.

[Rich]

I wish we could fine you every time you use the phrase "my little corner of Connecticut."

[jpgc99]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

to do otherwise may negatively impact one's ratings, ranking, and the number, and level of games, that one is assigned.

Serious question on this... If someone moves to your area with decades of experience at the high school and small college level, is your association really going to restrict the number of games they get because they don't follow the mechanics to the strictest degree possible? Even if they are an absolute rules expert and the best communicator and game manager your group has ever had?

I ask in all seriousness because I've worked for a lot of people that say what you are saying. But the reality is often quite different. Rules knowledge, communication, and game management often go a lot further than strict adherence to mechanics.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

From your post (and many previous posts, in many previous threads), mechanics sound like they are not hard fast rules where you officiate, and that's fine, where you officiate; but mechanics (and signals) are hard fast rules here in my little corner of Connecticut. Cadets (rookie officials) are taught IAABO mechanics, utilizing both the written manual, and floor training, and all officials are expected to use them, and to do otherwise may negatively impact one's ratings, ranking, and the number, and level of games, that one is assigned. This will impact rookie officials, and veteran officials, alike.

I am an official that has worked 3 sports at one time and college in each of them and no mechanics are hard fast as you try to make them be other than maybe a starting point like where you stand when putting the ball in play or where you start with runners on base or where you stand going in the 10 yard line. But no mechanic is in stone when play is going on or even covers every possibility. That is why you go to camps and we have classes or discuss mechanics at meetings to cover what people know or have learned is best like what happens on a BC violation situation that comes from the C position. And if you are a student of the game, there is a reason Referee Magazine has published books which cover things that never are published in your IAABO or NF books.

And where I live, we want rookies to go to camp to learn how to officiate and watch other officials to learn the idiosyncrasies of the mechanics. And around here we do not just do 2 person, we do 3 which requires a greater ability to work with your fellow officials. Even when I worked the State Finals, we spent a couple of hours going over mechanics and procedures that were stated and were not stated.

The simple fact Billy that you are mentioning something that is not listed, should be a sign that mechanics are "guidelines" if you read this board. Many people have said that, not just me. But for some reason you focus on me. Maybe you need to get out of the corner sometime.

Peace

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Made basket. Dead ball timeout immediately after the ball passes through the basket. There will be a run the endline throwin after the timeout.

Where does the administering official put the ball in play?

I have never seen this addressed in any mechanics manual, either IAABO, or NFHS.

If I'm the administering official, I just put it in play on the side that I was on as the old lead (becoming new trail), either table side, or opposite table side, when the timeout was requested. I was never taught to do it this way, it just seemed natural.

I've had partners who have put the ball in play on the side opposite from where their partner is standing (two person Connecticut), administer on the our table side if it was a sixty second timeout, administer on the opposite table side if it was a thirty second timeout. I'm not as comfortable doing this, but I'm flexible, and will go along with my partner.

How could the NFHS, or IAABO, have gone this far, after decades of fiddling around, trying to improve mechanics guidelines, and not have come up with a mechanic guideline to cover this procedure? I know that they cannot cover every single possibility, but it seems like they should have, at least, covered this.

One thing that we have to do, here in my little corner of Connecticut, according to our mechanics guidelines, is to stand, during the timeout, with the ball, at the spot where we will administer the throwin after the timeout. If we need to leave that spot to confer with partner, we are instructed to leave the ball at that spot.

We go opposite the table. As our state is mostly 2 man, the official admistering the time out is at half court it just makes sense to keep him on the table side.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Made basket. Dead ball timeout immediately after the ball passes through the basket. There will be a run the endline throwin after the timeout.

Where does the administering official put the ball in play?

I have never seen this addressed in any mechanics manual, either IAABO, or NFHS.

If I'm the administering official, I just put it in play on the side that I was on as the old lead (becoming new trail), either table side, or opposite table side, when the timeout was requested. I was never taught to do it this way, it just seemed natural.

I've had partners who have put the ball in play on the side opposite from where their partner is standing (two person Connecticut), administer on the our table side if it was a sixty second timeout, administer on the opposite table side if it was a thirty second timeout. I'm not as comfortable doing this, but I'm flexible, and will go along with my partner.

How could the NFHS, or IAABO, have gone this far, after decades of fiddling around, trying to improve mechanics guidelines, and not have come up with a mechanic guideline to cover this procedure? I know that they cannot cover every single possibility, but it seems like they should have, at least, covered this.

One thing that we have to do, here in my little corner of Connecticut, according to our mechanics guidelines, is to stand, during the timeout, with the ball, at the spot where we will administer the throwin after the timeout. If we need to leave that spot to confer with partner, we are instructed to leave the ball at that spot.

Interestingly, an observer just had a discussion about this with a few of us at an NCAAW's camp. Now this is 3-person but he said for an endline throw-in following a timeout after a made/awarded FG/FT it's not a bad idea to position ourselves so the administering official is table-side. Why? It gives everyone a good view of the benches/coaches since the C is looking right at them and both the L and T are right next to them.

As for conferring with partners during a timeout, NCAAW mechanics call for the non-administering officials to go to the the administering official if we need to talk. That way both benches (should) know where the throw-in spot is and it keeps us (hopefully) from forgetting the spot.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I can say when I watch NCAA or lower level college games, I cannot recall seeing it done. Maybe it is those in your areas that want to do it and others that choose not to. Just like any mechanic that involves people all over the country, officials do not all do things with the same level of emphasis.

Peace

It's done all the time in NCAAW / NAIAW / JuCoW games in our area, Jeff. Now, sometimes, at that level, newer officials don't know they can do that, so they go across and force the other officials to adjust. At least until we can talk to them.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

It's done all the time in NCAAW / NAIAW / JuCoW games in our area, Jeff. Now, sometimes, at that level, newer officials don't know they can do that, so they go across and force the other officials to adjust. At least until we can talk to them.

You got that right. The first time in a game an official forces his/her partners to switch when the play is going long is usually the last.

[APG]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

You got that right. The first time in a game an official forces his/her partners to switch when the play is going long is usually the last.

I have definitely been guilty of this!

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

You got that right. The first time in a game an official forces his/her partners to switch when the play is going long is usually the last.

For the sake of . . . what? Six or seven steps???
Is that really what all this is about?