T to C Exchange Indication

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Square up to the ball handler when you're ready to take it. When you give it up, turn your stance away from the ball handler.

Agree, and sometimes it's as simple as noting where your partner's eye contact is. Bottom line = you MUST pre-game this. It's a critical part of crew communication.

If I'm leading the pre-game, I'm going to tell you that if the ball swings from T's primary to C's primary and it's obviously in C's area (like deep, i.e. not in a gray area), that unless I'm finishing a count, I'm going to look inside and trust that you've got it. My focus at that point becomes the penetration of the ball and keeping an eye on whether or not L has closed down and/or started to rotate. BUT....if I'm giving it up and it is kind of in the gray area, I'm going to peek at you (in C) to see where you're looking.

Same goes for the reverse situation with a small twist. If I'm on-ball in C and giving it up to T, if it's obvious and I don't have a count, I'm trusting that you have it and I'm finding the closest matchup to officiate. I'm also checking to see if L came over, but if he did, unless the offense didn't completely reset, I'm in no hurry to back out. Might as well stay and officiate; there might be curl play I can check out, or I'll have a great open look at a drive from the weak side.

Did I mention this absolutely must be pre-gamed?

I'm always on-ball.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

Bottom line = you MUST pre-game this. ...

Not really....

There should be standard procedures and techniques. You and I should be able to walk on the floor having never met and work a game.

I don't care what people say in pregame, most of it goes in one ear and out the other. Once people get in the game, they largely do what they normally do. Some bizarre pre-gamed exception is more likely going to get the crew in trouble rather than get them on the same page.

If we were to pre-game all of this kind of stuff that an an official should just do, the pregame would be 3 hours long.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Not really....

There should be standard procedures and techniques. You and I should be able to walk on the floor having never met and work a game.

I don't care what people say in pregame, most of it goes in one ear and out the other. Once people get in the game, they largely do what they normally do. Some bizarre pre-gamed exception is more likely going to get the crew in trouble rather than get them on the same page.

If we were to pre-game all of this kind of stuff that an an official should just do, the pregame would be 3 hours long.

I agree. Good pregame! See you on the court.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Not really....

There should be standard procedures and techniques. You and I should be able to walk on the floor having never met and work a game.

I don't care what people say in pregame, most of it goes in one ear and out the other. Once people get in the game, they largely do what they normally do. Some bizarre pre-gamed exception is more likely going to get the crew in trouble rather than get them on the same page.

If we were to pre-game all of this kind of stuff that an an official should just do, the pregame would be 3 hours long.

Camron, every pregame is essentially a repeat of "shit referees should already know". I listen in on college pregames and they talk about block/charge, handchecking, who has the curl play, etc. Same stuff I do in my HS games.

I guess what crosscountry55 wrote must be too basic then, huh?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Not really....

There should be standard procedures and techniques. You and I should be able to walk on the floor having never met and work a game.
....

And how exactly does it become standard procedure and technique if it is only communicated telepathically?

We're just supposed to assume everyone who officiates basketball all learned the same thing?

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

And how exactly does it become standard procedure and technique if it is only communicated telepathically?

We're just supposed to assume everyone who officiates basketball all learned the same thing?

At the NCAA level? Pretty much. If you're working college basketball you've been to a camp. If you've been to a camp you've heard these things time and time again. If it hasn't sunk in by then, that's on you.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

At the NCAA level? Pretty much. If you're working college basketball you've been to a camp. If you've been to a camp you've heard these things time and time again. If it hasn't sunk in by then, that's on you.

So Freddy was talking about NCAA games? AremRed works a college schedule?

It is this attitude exhibited in this thread about "they should already know..." that causes young officials to be hesitant about involving themselves in pre-game talks.

Why folks think they are above talking about certain subjects in pre-game has always bewildered me.

I'll a take a conversation over the T/C exchange any day of the normal, tired ole clichéd pre-games. I would be excited about a young HS partner who asks such a question in the locker room.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

So Freddy was talking about NCAA games? AremRed works a college schedule?

It is this attitude exhibited in this thread about "they should already know..." that causes young officials to be hesitant about involving themselves in pre-game talks.

Why folks think they are above talking about certain subjects in pre-game has always bewildered me.

I'll a take a conversation over the T/C exchange any day of the normal, tired ole clichéd pre-games. I would be excited about a young HS partner who asks such a question in the locker room.

Amen! The pre-game isn't really about individual rules and situations, even though that's what is discussed. It is far more meaningful on the subconscious level; it gets the crew comfortable with each other and helps defeat complacency.

What if pilots didn't go through the same old boring checklists every time they take off and land? Stuff like this has a meaningful purpose.

[JRutledge]

I may not pre-game this part, but you do need to have a pre-game if for no other reason to find out the fundamental differences you have with a partner that you have never worked with or does not have your similar background. A lot of this never needs to be talked about, but it might help to discuss when you are and when you are not on-ball.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

So Freddy was talking about NCAA games? AremRed works a college schedule?

It is this attitude exhibited in this thread about "they should already know..." that causes young officials to be hesitant about involving themselves in pre-game talks.

Why folks think they are above talking about certain subjects in pre-game has always bewildered me.

I'll a take a conversation over the T/C exchange any day of the normal, tired ole clichéd pre-games. I would be excited about a young HS partner who asks such a question in the locker room.

For me a pregame with a new partner is a feeling out process -- he's feeling me out and vice versa. We're coming together as a crew, getting comfortable with each other.

Anyone that doesn't have time for that "same old shit" I'm probably better off not working with.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

At the NCAA level? Pretty much. If you're working college basketball you've been to a camp. If you've been to a camp you've heard these things time and time again. If it hasn't sunk in by then, that's on you.

In a perfect world, maybe. But go to a camp outside your "normal" area...while everything should be the "same" and we have teaching points to follow, those different areas have different takes on certain things and do things a little bit differently. So someone who has gone to a camp in Florida might get a different message that someone who goes to a camp in Michigan or California.

Add to that the fact that there are always officials who have their little quirks or whatever, and you realize that this topic is not something that can be skipped regularly in pre-games. Especially when working with someone you haven't worked with before.

[Rufus]

At the very least I want to pre-game and know how my partners expect to indicate they're on-ball. That way I know what to look for during the game.

Of course, I've had them say one thing then either not do it or do something else. Makes me wonder about the efficacy of including it in the pre-game but, to the point others have made, it helps to remind me of things I need to concentrate on.

[BatteryPowered]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

At the NCAA level? Pretty much. If you're working college basketball you've been to a camp. If you've been to a camp you've heard these things time and time again. If it hasn't sunk in by then, that's on you.

What the what?

Admittedly I don't work college ball but if this is the attitude of college officials I want no part of it.

What would you tell the coach if you were T and the C didn't pick up the play (for whatever reason) and you moved on right before the star gets hammered? "Sorry coach, that wasn't my call. Don't know why dipshirt didn't blow, you need to ask him."?

SMH

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by BatteryPowered

What the what?

Admittedly I don't work college ball but if this is the attitude of college officials I want no part of it.

What would you tell the coach if you were T and the C didn't pick up the play (for whatever reason) and you moved on right before the star gets hammered? "Sorry coach, that wasn't my call. Don't know why dipshirt didn't blow, you need to ask him."?

SMH

It's not a matter of attitude. Nevada probably had the best answer: Turn your shoulders to the match-up and/or start a 5-second count. If I'm T and my C starts a count (in my case that's only going to be when someone is holding the ball) it doesn't take setting off a flare to tell me they have the ball. However if we don't mention it during pregame - and I've been in some games where we do and some where we don't - I'm not going in there in a panic wondering when to pick up the ball, mainly because we've all heard the same teaching points. Watch your partner and key off them.

As to the question: I'm T and the ball is in C's area and the BH/D is fouled in front of them but there's no whistle that's probably a whole crew failure. If the ball is just at the opposite - from me - LLE then I shouldn't have let it go in the first place until I glanced at my partner. If it's clearly in the C's area then some sort of rotation should have been in process if not completed because if the C isn't looking at the play and it's right next to them that means there are felonies taking place in the post so the L should have rotated.