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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 07, 2015, 02:24pm
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T to C Exchange Indication

How do you effect that on/off-ball exchange toward the middle above the key between C and T and vice versa? What, if anything do you do to signal you've gone on-ball, or what do you look for to verify your partner went from off-ball to on-ball?
What is your preference, your pregame point on this?
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Last edited by Freddy; Sun Jun 07, 2015 at 04:19pm.
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jun 07, 2015, 05:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
How do you effect that on/off-ball exchange toward the middle above the key between C and T and vice versa? What, if anything do you do to signal you've gone on-ball, or what do you look for to verify your partner went from off-ball to on-ball?
What is your preference, your pregame point on this?
Square up to the ball handler when you're ready to take it. When you give it up, turn your stance away from the ball handler.
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Old Sun Jun 07, 2015, 07:07pm
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This is usually indicated by the angle of your shoulders and starting a closely-guarded count.
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Old Sun Jun 07, 2015, 07:29pm
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Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
This is usually indicated by the angle of your shoulders and starting a closely-guarded count.
...even if they're not quite closely guarded just to signal that you've got it.
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Old Sun Jun 07, 2015, 07:44pm
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Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
Square up to the ball handler when you're ready to take it. When you give it up, turn your stance away from the ball handler.
Agree, and sometimes it's as simple as noting where your partner's eye contact is. Bottom line = you MUST pre-game this. It's a critical part of crew communication.

If I'm leading the pre-game, I'm going to tell you that if the ball swings from T's primary to C's primary and it's obviously in C's area (like deep, i.e. not in a gray area), that unless I'm finishing a count, I'm going to look inside and trust that you've got it. My focus at that point becomes the penetration of the ball and keeping an eye on whether or not L has closed down and/or started to rotate. BUT....if I'm giving it up and it is kind of in the gray area, I'm going to peek at you (in C) to see where you're looking.

Same goes for the reverse situation with a small twist. If I'm on-ball in C and giving it up to T, if it's obvious and I don't have a count, I'm trusting that you have it and I'm finding the closest matchup to officiate. I'm also checking to see if L came over, but if he did, unless the offense didn't completely reset, I'm in no hurry to back out. Might as well stay and officiate; there might be curl play I can check out, or I'll have a great open look at a drive from the weak side.

Did I mention this absolutely must be pre-gamed?
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Old Sun Jun 07, 2015, 07:52pm
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I'm always on-ball.
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Old Sun Jun 07, 2015, 10:58pm
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Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
Bottom line = you MUST pre-game this. ...
Not really....

There should be standard procedures and techniques. You and I should be able to walk on the floor having never met and work a game.

I don't care what people say in pregame, most of it goes in one ear and out the other. Once people get in the game, they largely do what they normally do. Some bizarre pre-gamed exception is more likely going to get the crew in trouble rather than get them on the same page.

If we were to pre-game all of this kind of stuff that an an official should just do, the pregame would be 3 hours long.
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Old Mon Jun 08, 2015, 02:25am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
Not really....

There should be standard procedures and techniques. You and I should be able to walk on the floor having never met and work a game.

I don't care what people say in pregame, most of it goes in one ear and out the other. Once people get in the game, they largely do what they normally do. Some bizarre pre-gamed exception is more likely going to get the crew in trouble rather than get them on the same page.

If we were to pre-game all of this kind of stuff that an an official should just do, the pregame would be 3 hours long.
I agree. Good pregame! See you on the court.
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Old Mon Jun 08, 2015, 02:29am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
Not really....

There should be standard procedures and techniques. You and I should be able to walk on the floor having never met and work a game.

I don't care what people say in pregame, most of it goes in one ear and out the other. Once people get in the game, they largely do what they normally do. Some bizarre pre-gamed exception is more likely going to get the crew in trouble rather than get them on the same page.

If we were to pre-game all of this kind of stuff that an an official should just do, the pregame would be 3 hours long.
Camron, every pregame is essentially a repeat of "shit referees should already know". I listen in on college pregames and they talk about block/charge, handchecking, who has the curl play, etc. Same stuff I do in my HS games.

I guess what crosscountry55 wrote must be too basic then, huh?
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Old Mon Jun 08, 2015, 07:48am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
Not really....

There should be standard procedures and techniques. You and I should be able to walk on the floor having never met and work a game.
....
And how exactly does it become standard procedure and technique if it is only communicated telepathically?

We're just supposed to assume everyone who officiates basketball all learned the same thing?
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Old Mon Jun 08, 2015, 09:18am
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Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
And how exactly does it become standard procedure and technique if it is only communicated telepathically?

We're just supposed to assume everyone who officiates basketball all learned the same thing?
At the NCAA level? Pretty much. If you're working college basketball you've been to a camp. If you've been to a camp you've heard these things time and time again. If it hasn't sunk in by then, that's on you.
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Old Mon Jun 08, 2015, 09:35am
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Originally Posted by JetMetFan View Post
At the NCAA level? Pretty much. If you're working college basketball you've been to a camp. If you've been to a camp you've heard these things time and time again. If it hasn't sunk in by then, that's on you.
So Freddy was talking about NCAA games? AremRed works a college schedule?

It is this attitude exhibited in this thread about "they should already know..." that causes young officials to be hesitant about involving themselves in pre-game talks.

Why folks think they are above talking about certain subjects in pre-game has always bewildered me.

I'll a take a conversation over the T/C exchange any day of the normal, tired ole clichéd pre-games. I would be excited about a young HS partner who asks such a question in the locker room.
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Last edited by Raymond; Mon Jun 08, 2015 at 10:19am.
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Old Mon Jun 08, 2015, 11:00am
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Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
So Freddy was talking about NCAA games? AremRed works a college schedule?

It is this attitude exhibited in this thread about "they should already know..." that causes young officials to be hesitant about involving themselves in pre-game talks.

Why folks think they are above talking about certain subjects in pre-game has always bewildered me.

I'll a take a conversation over the T/C exchange any day of the normal, tired ole clichéd pre-games. I would be excited about a young HS partner who asks such a question in the locker room.
Amen! The pre-game isn't really about individual rules and situations, even though that's what is discussed. It is far more meaningful on the subconscious level; it gets the crew comfortable with each other and helps defeat complacency.

What if pilots didn't go through the same old boring checklists every time they take off and land? Stuff like this has a meaningful purpose.
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Old Mon Jun 08, 2015, 11:16am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
So Freddy was talking about NCAA games? AremRed works a college schedule?

It is this attitude exhibited in this thread about "they should already know..." that causes young officials to be hesitant about involving themselves in pre-game talks.

Why folks think they are above talking about certain subjects in pre-game has always bewildered me.

I'll a take a conversation over the T/C exchange any day of the normal, tired ole clichéd pre-games. I would be excited about a young HS partner who asks such a question in the locker room.
For me a pregame with a new partner is a feeling out process -- he's feeling me out and vice versa. We're coming together as a crew, getting comfortable with each other.

Anyone that doesn't have time for that "same old shit" I'm probably better off not working with.
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Old Mon Jun 08, 2015, 11:16am
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I may not pre-game this part, but you do need to have a pre-game if for no other reason to find out the fundamental differences you have with a partner that you have never worked with or does not have your similar background. A lot of this never needs to be talked about, but it might help to discuss when you are and when you are not on-ball.

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