Offensive Kicking?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by OKREF

Yea, I don't see how this is confusing. Just because it's the offense doesn't mean they can't intentionally kick the ball. Just observe play if someone intentionally kicks it, blow the whistle

It becomes confusing because someone gives a general guideline, and someone else takes it as the absolute rule (and repeats it, and it gets distorted in the retelling....)

With nothing meant about any poster in this thread. Just a general statement.

[Kelvin green]

Wasn't their an interpretation where pinning the ball between feet and legs constituted a kick? Because you don't use feet or legs to control the ball? ...

[kstiles99]

Kicked ball violations can be called on any of the players in the game.. Offense and defense. And might I add.. I've never seen an offensive player get called for this in upper ranks (ncaa and nba). And the only kicked balls I've seen called are when an offensive player throws the ball at a defenders foot.. So it isn't even a true violation.

Might I add.. Just for help with future situations-
(Mainly for new referees)

Kicked ball violation: Any INTENTIONAL contact with the ball by ANY players FOOT or ANY PART OF THE LEG.

I say this because it doesn't matter if offense or defense kicks it. If it's intentional leg contact- violation. If it's a loose ball (no team control) and contact is {INTENTIONAL}- kicked ball violation. It really helps to keep this in mind.

I've had situations where players have grabbed the ball with their feet and moved it away while on their backs. No kick.. But still a kicked ball violation.

Again- for new referees or anyone who wants to know my personal helper:

If you're not sure- ask yourself "was it intentional leg or foot contact?"

[Pantherdreams]

Violation is pretty clear and easy to get.

HOWEVER . . . we'ev all worked with those people and for new officials if you work with those guys often and early you can develop bad habits. I had a partner my first couple of years who wouldn't call violations like (kick ball, travels, illegal dribbles) unless they were balatant. I mean unless the player drop kicked the ball like a punter he would insist that it wasn't intentional.

Violations may not be the sexiest calls in the game and I know that a lot people here would espouse that you dont' want travelling to be your best call. All that said if you consistently and effecively get your violations as an official, the game cleans up and slows down (either literally or figuratively as you get better at seeing things at pace) to make it easier for you to officiate.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Adam

The committee has stated, clearly, that the intent of the rule is to make players play the ball with their hands. This isn't soccer.

And in both sports, it's only an infraction when it's done DELIBERATELY. There are a lot of parellels between both sports in this area.

For example, in basketball, if A-1 looks to pass the ball past B-2, B-2 jumps, and the pass hits the ball in his leg, we generally have a kicking violation here. The leg motion may not be toward the ball, but the defender has, in essence, made himself bigger, and caused the kicking act. The same goes in soccer: if a defender puts his arms out to stop a pass ("making himself bigger"), it's a handling foul.

Another parallel: People will incorrectly cry for an whistle immediately when a basketball touches a foot or a soccer ball touches a hand.

To the OP's point, the most common "offensive" kicking violation I see is the rare instance when loose ball that a player tries to secure on the floor, between his thighs.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bainsey

For example, in basketball, if A-1 looks to pass the ball past B-2, B-2 jumps, and the pass hits the ball in his leg, we generally have a kicking violation here. The leg motion may not be toward the ball, but the defender has, in essence, made himself bigger, and caused the kicking act.

I'd only agree with that IF, by jumping, you mean that the player stuck a leg out to the side while jumping...which is not a natural part of the jumping movement. Jumping up alone with not be a kick in my games.

To me, it isn't about the leg moving toward the ball but moving or being into the path of the ball such that it is not a natural part some other movement (e.g., running, shifting, etc.).

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

... you dont' want travelling to be your best call.

Traveling is the hardest call for me to make, not block/charge, not managing coaches, not ricochets out of bounds.

If I had a game, and traveling was my best call in that game, I would be quite pleased with myself.

[chymechowder]

I think it's a relatively easy call, but I've found it's difficult to "sell" the non-call when Team A tries to force a bounce pass through traffic. Essentially, they throw the ball into a defender's shin/foot. I won't blow my whistle. Then, invariably, Team B recovers the carom and Team A's coach is yelling for a KICK

[Adam]

Originally Posted by chymechowder

I think it's a relatively easy call, but I've found it's difficult to "sell" the non-call when Team A tries to force a bounce pass through traffic. Essentially, they throw the ball into a defender's shin/foot. I won't blow my whistle. Then, invariably, Team B recovers the carom and Team A's coach is yelling for a KICK

Your coaches suck.

[#olderthanilook]

I've seen it and called it many times. Especially in lower level ball i.e. men's wreck league.