Controversial end to Oregon Tournament Game

[jpgc99]

Originally Posted by IUgrad92

As I believe it was stated earlier, the FED has not come forth with how a whistle should end a quarter, so what you state is your opinion for HS ball and I agree we all need to try to do things as they are done in our own respective areas.

I can just tell you that in 18+ years I have not had one case of added confusion. If anything it has only added clarity, as I've been a part of my fair share of 'buzzer beaters'/shots taken close to the horn, and I have never left the court with the confusion I see in the OP or with a coach still wondering why I counted the basket or why I waved it off. It just simply has never happened.

You have every right to add conjecture as to what 'might' happen with my "mechanic", but at the same time, I can give actual testimony of 18+ years of using it.

Maybe you would be willing to put your two cents as to why there was so much confusion at the end of this OP video and if you think it was the correct call?

Just to be clear, if the ball leaves the shooter's hand before the horn sounds, you blow your whistle immediately when the horn sounds? As others have said, if that is acceptable in your area, do what works for you.

But I would encourage other readers here to NOT do that. I've worked in multiple states and multiple organizations and this would not be seen as an acceptable mechanic in any of them. I do not see any benefit from using this mechanic but see significant room for argument, questioning and confusion.

My approach is similar to BNR - if the ball is in the shooters hand at time of horn, blow the whistle immediately. If the ball has been released before the horn, wait until the ball has gone in or is clearly unsuccessful. Then blow the whistle. This is the expected mechanic everywhere I have worked.

There will always be the possibility of argument, but no one is confused by this sequence. Even in the video: No one is confused about the ruling; they question the accuracy of the call

[jeremy341a]

We do it here the same as jpgc99 has described. I couldn't imagine hitting my whistle while a shot that would be counted is still in flight.

[IUgrad92]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

We do it here the same as jpgc99 has described. I couldn't imagine hitting my whistle while a shot that would be counted is still in flight.

So as an "off" official, you're not calling a foul off-ball (ie. hitting your whistle) while a shot is in flight? Of course you would because the whistle does not make the ball dead. Same philosophy applies my friend.....

[jeremy341a]

Originally Posted by IUgrad92

So as an "off" official, you're not calling a foul off-ball (ie. hitting your whistle) while a shot is in flight? Of course you would because the whistle does not make the ball dead. Same philosophy applies my friend.....

Sorry I should have said not hitting my whistle to signal the end of the period, when the ball is released in time, until after it is clear the shot is good or not. Of course I would whistle to signal a foul but I'm guessing you knew that already.

[Multiple Sports]

I know that some of this discussion has gone the way of 3 vs. 2. In my state ( GO TERPS ), we go to 3 for the play offs, as you get deeper into the playoffs, you start to see some consistency regarding the officiating. However the first two rounds can be a joke. They are paying for an extra set of eyes to ball watch and miss rotations. We should just stick to two man ( regular season is done two man ) for the first two rounds.

Fred Barakat once told a story at his camp where Dean Smith told him we aren't paying $500 for another set of eyes to ball watch. It seems that the same thing is true in a lot of hs basketball....

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports

I know that some of this discussion has gone the way of 3 vs. 2. In my state ( GO TERPS ), we go to 3 for the play offs, as you get deeper into the playoffs, you start to see some consistency regarding the officiating. However the first two rounds can be a joke. They are paying for an extra set of eyes to ball watch and miss rotations. We should just stick to two man ( regular season is done two man ) for the first two rounds.

Fred Barakat once told a story at his camp where Dean Smith told him we aren't paying $500 for another set of eyes to ball watch. It seems that the same thing is true in a lot of hs basketball....

It is if they haven't done 3 all year. If you make the first two rounds 2 man as well, then you'll have that problem in the latter rounds instead.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Adam

It is if they haven't done 3 all year. If you make the first two rounds 2 man as well, then you'll have that problem in the latter rounds instead.

Unless those that get the latter rounds typically have other 3 person experience that those getting to the first rounds don't have.

[IUgrad92]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

We do it here the same as jpgc99 has described. I couldn't imagine hitting my whistle while a shot that would be counted is still in flight.

The calling official in the OP did exactly as you prescribe and got the play wrong. All I am saying is that my "mechanic" may perhaps enhance and increase the probability of getting it right. Could you not conclude that the philosophy/technique/mechanic that the calling official used, did not work in this particular play, and in turn added confusion??

[IUgrad92]

Originally Posted by jpgc99

Just to be clear, if the ball leaves the shooter's hand before the horn sounds, you blow your whistle immediately when the horn sounds? As others have said, if that is acceptable in your area, do what works for you.

Yes, because it adds clarity for me as to the location of ball at the time I blow my whistle. I believe it enhances cognitive awareness to what needs absolute attention, the location of the ball at the time the horn sounds. The mechanics I have chosen to use over the past 18+ years are for one reason only, to put myself in the best situation possible to get the play correct and I believe this particular one has never let me down and it has never left a coach (winning or losing) in a state of confusion.

The calling official waited a full second, if not longer, to blow his whistle after the horn, try for goal was over, and still waves it off??

Now THAT is added confusion....

[jpgc99]

Originally Posted by IUgrad92

Yes, because it adds clarity for me as to the location of ball at the time I blow my whistle. I believe it enhances cognitive awareness to what needs absolute attention, the location of the ball at the time the horn sounds. The mechanics I have chosen to use over the past 18+ years are for one reason only, to put myself in the best situation possible to get the play correct and I believe this particular one has never let me down and it has never left a coach (winning or losing) in a state of confusion.

The calling official waited a full second, if not longer, to blow his whistle after the horn, try for goal was over, and still waves it off??

Now THAT is added confusion....

You're correct. I'm in my office and watched on mute. Blowing the whistle that late does add confusion. My mistake in reference to the video.

However, where the ball is when you blow your whistle has absolutely no bearing on the play. All that matters is the status of the ball when time expires. Your whistle is after the expiration of time so it really doesn't help you pinpoint the proper time.

The best practice is to have a mental count so that you are not caught off guard and can know where the ball is at the exact time of expiration. I always keep a mental count so that I am not surprised by the horn. In reality, I think your focus on blowing the whistle helps you because it keeps you focused on not being surprised by the horn. If that works for you, great. But from my experience this is not a mechanic that would be approved in many places. When in Rome...

[IUgrad92]

Originally Posted by jpgc99

However, where the ball is when you blow your whistle has absolutely no bearing on the play. All that matters is the status of the ball when time expires. Your whistle is after the expiration of time so it really doesn't help you pinpoint the proper time.

That's why I mentioned this is an earlier post.....
(Rule 1.14) "...... the audible timer's signal (i.e. horn) shall indicate that time has expired."

And it does help you pinpoint proper time, as long as you have reasonable time/end of quarter awareness. I've been doing it for many, many years, so I can only speak for my experience. Saying "it doesn't help you" is based on....................??

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by IUgrad92

Now THAT is added confusion....

And by that, are you talking about a rookie official observing you and comparing what you do on the court with what he is supposed to do according to the NFHS (or IAABO) Mechanics Manual he has in his hands?

Or, if this is another one of those "When in Rome" things, and if that's the case, then, by all means, continue doing it.

[IUgrad92]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

And by that, are you talking about a rookie official observing you and comparing what you do on the court with what he is supposed to do according to the NFHS (or IAABO) Mechanics Manual he has in his hands?

Or, if this is another one of those "When in Rome" things, and if that's the case, then, by all means, continue doing it.

I thought it was said earlier in this thread by someone else that there is NO reference on how a whistle should be used to end a quarter. Nothing in the rule book, case book, or official's manual. Are you saying that you have something different from NFHS in this regard?