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  #46 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 12, 2015, 11:55pm
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Nice video but it doesn't show whether the clock started on time. If there was any lag I would imagine that the ball was still in the players hand.
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  #47 (permalink)  
Old Thu Mar 12, 2015, 11:57pm
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Sorry I did not read all the comments.

I cannot tell anything by the video.

I did not read all the comments but if I am waiving off the basket, I am not taking my time. I am waving it off immediately and I am going towards the table. I am not watching the ball go through the hole.

Man that was close and I am glad it was not me with that lack of video evidence. Still some games to go and now I am scared.

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  #48 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 13, 2015, 11:30am
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Did you guys watch the video that was posted in the comments on the original article? It is shot from behind the black team's bench and it shows the shot clearly should have counted.

I'm assuming 6A is one of Oregon's biggest classes, and this is a state playoff game? Unbelievable that you would still have 2-person crews at that point in the season. In Missouri, even the smallest classes use 3-person crews from the district tournaments all the way to the state finals.
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  #49 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 13, 2015, 11:33am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zm1283 View Post
Did you guys watch the video that was posted in the comments on the original article? It is shot from behind the black team's bench and it shows the shot clearly should have counted.

I'm assuming 6A is one of Oregon's biggest classes, and this is a state playoff game? Unbelievable that you would still have 2-person crews at that point in the season. In Missouri, even the smallest classes use 3-person crews from the district tournaments all the way to the state finals.
If your officials have been working 2-person crews all season, I fail to see how adding a third in the playoffs is helpful.
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  #50 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 13, 2015, 12:09pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
Doing it my way I've never had confusion either, so the early whistle procedure would have absolutely zero value added and only causes confusion in the places I work. I've done quite a few games where a partner blew the whistle while the shot was in the air and clearly released before time expired, and everyone thought that meant they were waving off the shot.

And there was no confusion in the OP, everyone knew he waved off the basket. Your procedure actually has absolutely nothing to do with what happened in the video.
There is absolute confusion as the whistle and wave off were after the ball when through the basket. If he was waving it off from the get go, should we not have been hearing a whistle a little sooner? That is where the confusion comes in. To be honest, I don't think there is much dispute that the ball was out of the shooter's hand when the horn sounds.

A whistle while the ball is in the air, whether at the end of a quarter or on an off-ball foul during the game, mean the exact same thing. Some understand that, others don't, that's not a surprise. Just because 'everyone' thinks something, doesn't really matter does it.

The fact that you cannot connect the dots with what I'm saying and how it relates to the OP, doesn't mean it's not there. It just means you don't see it, and frankly I'm not surprised.

And for the record, I've never once said that my method is best or the only way to handle things. It is only how I handle this situation, and that it has been very effective for me. I have only offered up a suggestion, something to consider, maybe try it in a lower level game and make a decision from there, or maybe just disregard it altogether, whatever..... Everyone here is a big person and can make there own decision and judgment on what's best for him/her.

There are officials out there, and I've worked with many, that have the mechanic of not having a whistle at all to end a quarter.The fact is the FED has not spelled out a standard mechanic or procedure for a whistle end of quarters, so I don't see where anyone, especially here, has absolute authority to say what is the correct mechanic/procedure and what isn't.
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  #51 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 13, 2015, 01:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IUgrad92 View Post
There is absolute confusion as the whistle and wave off were after the ball when through the basket. If he was waving it off from the get go, should we not have been hearing a whistle a little sooner? That is where the confusion comes in. To be honest, I don't think there is much dispute that the ball was out of the shooter's hand when the horn sounds.

...

And for the record, I've never once said that my method is best or the only way to handle things. It is only how I handle this situation, and that it has been very effective for me. I have only offered up a suggestion, something to consider, maybe try it in a lower level game and make a decision from there, or maybe just disregard it altogether, whatever..... Everyone here is a big person and can make there own decision and judgment on what's best for him/her.


....
My very first post in this thread said if you are waving off a shot, then you have to wave it off while still in A1's hand, or immediately after the release, not after the ball is through the basket.

But that has absolutely nothing to do with blowing the whistle while a legal try is still in flight. Those whistles always cause confusion in games I've worked.

And I was only stating what my method is and why I do it that way. Your post was only a reference point, and not a personal affront to you.
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Last edited by Raymond; Fri Mar 13, 2015 at 01:05pm.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 13, 2015, 01:03pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
If your officials have been working 2-person crews all season, I fail to see how adding a third in the playoffs is helpful.
Well when my state added 3 person for the playoffs almost 20 years ago, this allowed the conferences to go to 3 person full time. And no one is considering going backwards. There are a couple of conferences that still use 2 person, but they do not get a lot of the better officials or officials that work better conferences. So maybe a policy will change the overall practice of those that do the regular season assigning.

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  #53 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 13, 2015, 01:06pm
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Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
I'm not putting whistle on the play until it is dead. That means immediately if the ball is still in the shooter's hand when time expires. A legal shot in mid-flight is not getting a whistle from me. I will hit my whistle the shot goes through the basket or when it is obvious that the shot is no good.
Agreed. I can't imagine any good coming from blowing my whistle while a live ball is in flight here. I'll blow my whistle when the quarter is over, and not before. Some may do it the way IUgrad92 does, but I can't imagine this being something someone should have a problem with, either way.
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  #54 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 13, 2015, 01:08pm
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
Well when my state added 3 person for the playoffs almost 20 years ago, this allowed the conferences to go to 3 person full time. And no one is considering going backwards. There are a couple of conferences that still use 2 person, but they do not get a lot of the better officials or officials that work better conferences. So maybe a policy will change the overall practice of those that do the regular season assigning.

Peace
True, it's a way to start transitioning into a 3-person system. If it goes on for more than a couple of years, though, it's no longer a transitional adjustment.
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  #55 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 13, 2015, 01:15pm
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I'm the the association that normally has both of those schools (along with Camron) and the next day I had a playoff game in the same area as the winning school.

Our assigner dropped by our locker room at halftime of our playoff game just to say hi and give us a couple of observations. I asked him if he had seen the video and he stated he only looked at it briefly as he had been travelling between several of our smaller classification tournaments last weekend. He thought the shot was off before the horn...

The officials in this game weren't from our association, but from another one down south. I asked if he had any blowback from the call and he stated he hadn't, but he was sure glad the two officials weren't from our association as he'd be dealing with a lot of grief from various parties if they were!

There has been some talk of Oregon going to 3 man (finally) in the next couple of years, but I'll believe it when I see it.
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  #56 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 13, 2015, 01:21pm
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In my area we do a mix of two and three person during the regular season. One of the main factors is the lack of officials. For playoffs in Michigan everything is three person. Personally I think that 3 person provides a better product regardless of what is used during the year.
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  #57 (permalink)  
Old Fri Mar 13, 2015, 08:51pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zm1283 View Post
Did you guys watch the video that was posted in the comments on the original article? It is shot from behind the black team's bench and it shows the shot clearly should have counted.
The second video leaves no doubt - at least as it relates to the horn.
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  #58 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 17, 2015, 11:19am
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Originally Posted by IUgrad92 View Post
So as an "off" official, you're not calling a foul off-ball (ie. hitting your whistle) while a shot is in flight? Of course you would because the whistle does not make the ball dead. Same philosophy applies my friend.....

Sorry I should have said not hitting my whistle to signal the end of the period, when the ball is released in time, until after it is clear the shot is good or not. Of course I would whistle to signal a foul but I'm guessing you knew that already.

Last edited by jeremy341a; Tue Mar 17, 2015 at 11:21am.
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  #59 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 17, 2015, 12:08pm
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3 vs 2

I know that some of this discussion has gone the way of 3 vs. 2. In my state ( GO TERPS ), we go to 3 for the play offs, as you get deeper into the playoffs, you start to see some consistency regarding the officiating. However the first two rounds can be a joke. They are paying for an extra set of eyes to ball watch and miss rotations. We should just stick to two man ( regular season is done two man ) for the first two rounds.

Fred Barakat once told a story at his camp where Dean Smith told him we aren't paying $500 for another set of eyes to ball watch. It seems that the same thing is true in a lot of hs basketball....
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  #60 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 17, 2015, 12:58pm
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Originally Posted by Multiple Sports View Post
I know that some of this discussion has gone the way of 3 vs. 2. In my state ( GO TERPS ), we go to 3 for the play offs, as you get deeper into the playoffs, you start to see some consistency regarding the officiating. However the first two rounds can be a joke. They are paying for an extra set of eyes to ball watch and miss rotations. We should just stick to two man ( regular season is done two man ) for the first two rounds.

Fred Barakat once told a story at his camp where Dean Smith told him we aren't paying $500 for another set of eyes to ball watch. It seems that the same thing is true in a lot of hs basketball....
It is if they haven't done 3 all year. If you make the first two rounds 2 man as well, then you'll have that problem in the latter rounds instead.
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