Blarge

[Spence]

I've always understood that on a blarge where the shot went in the basket does NOT count IF there was player control at the time of the foul.

However, I'm not sure how I justify that from the rulebook.

When we report the fouls we use the double foul signal, correct?

I can't find where it says that the basket does not count on a double foul. I see 4.19.8 C where it says it DOES count IF the ball was released prior to the foul.

Help me out.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Spence

I've always understood that on a blarge where the shot went in the basket does NOT count IF there was player control at the time of the foul.

However, I'm not sure how I justify that from the rulebook.

When we report the fouls we use the double foul signal, correct?

I can't find where it says that the basket does not count on a double foul. I see 4.19.8 C where it says it DOES count IF the ball was released prior to the foul.

Help me out.

The simple answer is that you've "always understood" this incorrectly. The NFHS casebook ruling has been around for many years. The basket counts if released before the collision. If the ball was not yet released when the contact occurred, the double foul makes the ball dead and there is no try. As many others have previously written in this thread from last season, the ball is awarded to Team B when the basket counts and awarded back to Team A when the crash happens prior to the release.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Spence

I've always understood that on a blarge where the shot went in the basket does NOT count IF there was player control at the time of the foul.

However, I'm not sure how I justify that from the rulebook.

A couple of things here. First of all you are kind of jumbling many different things into one. Let us take one at a time.

Originally Posted by Spence

When we report the fouls we use the double foul signal, correct?

A "blarge" is two different officials making a call. Both signalling and the rulebook states that we cannot just ignore or take one back. You would not report a double foul initially as both officials would have to report their individual fouls. I guess at the end of it you could give the signal, but I do not think that is how I would do it (or have done it in the past) at the spot. That is all semantics as this is not supposed to happen in the first place.

Originally Posted by Spence

I can't find where it says that the basket does not count on a double foul. I see 4.19.8 C where it says it DOES count IF the ball was released prior to the foul.

If you read the case play and the ruling, nothing says that you would not count the basket. In Situation A, the ball goes in the basket and the basket is considered successful. Also in the play in question the ball was released before the "double foul." So you do not kill the ball because a foul does not automatically make the ball dead after a release. That is a basic fundamental in the rules actually. And since you do not have a PC foul by definition (you cannot on a double foul) it is treated like any other foul when the ball is clearly released. It would be no different if A1 shoots the ball and while the ball is in the air, A2 and B1 both foul each other and a double foul is called. You would allow the basket to count if it goes in and give the ball at the POI which would give Team B the ball. If the shot is missed, the POI is the AP situation as no one has possession.

I hope that kind of helps.

Peace

[PG_Ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

A "blarge" is two different officials making a call. Both signalling and the rulebook states that we cannot just ignore or take one back. You would not report a double foul initially as both officials would have to report their individual fouls.

Who would the third official switch with?

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by PG_Ref

Who would the third official switch with?

I'm pretty sure that would be the least of their concerns at that moment...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by PG_Ref

Who would the third official switch with?

Are you sure this is a 3 person game?

Peace

[Dad]

I've never had a blarge, yet, but I doubt pregame does much good. I have no statistics to back it up, but I'm guessing the majority of officials when they go to blow their whistle aren't thinking about the pregame. Some of us just love to show our block/charge. Habits are habits.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Dad

I've never had a blarge, yet, but I doubt pregame does much good. I have no statistics to back it up, but I'm guessing the majority of officials when they go to blow their whistle aren't thinking about the pregame. Some of us just love to show our block/charge. Habits are habits.

Pregame can help, if nothing else it's a reminder and may help slow down. You're right, though, it's not going to prevent it. Does anyone honestly think the NCAA guys who do this every year didn't address it in pregame?

I've had one, in a summer game. We were pretty slow on the prelim the rest of the game.

I've also had a play where L and T had the same call (PC) and both reported at the same time, without knowing it, while the C stood back and observed them. He told them at half time.

They were both table side. L walked around opposite while T just turned around to report. That was poor awareness, but we got lucky.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by Adam

Pregame can help, if nothing else it's a reminder and may help slow down. You're right, though, it's not going to prevent it. Does anyone honestly think the NCAA guys who do this every year didn't address it in pregame?

I've had one, in a summer game. We were pretty slow on the prelim the rest of the game.

I've also had a play where L and T had the same call (PC) and both reported at the same time, without knowing it, while the C stood back and observed them. He told them at half time.

They were both table side. L walked around opposite while T just turned around to report. That was poor awareness, but we got lucky.

That could've come off wrong. I didn't mean don't pregame it, just saying I doubt it helps much.

C probably got a great laugh here.