Blarge

[Rich]

I've had one in my career. JUCO mens game about 5-6 years ago. I was the lead, it was a no-brainer block in the lane, and as I'm banging the block, the trail (3-person) was pointing the other way.

I looked over at the C, and I swear he was laughing. Later I found out it was because the charge call from the T was so bad he was laughing at what he knew my reaction was going to be later. We went double foul without a second thought and both coaches were unhappy, as you'd expect.

Anyhow, our crew has gotten sloppy this season, I'll admit -- it's something we need to clean up. We had a no-brainer player control foul in the dreaded triple whistle area last week, and I wouldn't be surprised if all three of us pointed it the other way. Seems we only ever do this on easy, no-brainer fouls, but I'm afraid it's going to happen when we have one that's not quite so easy. Hasn't bitten us yet...and the one I've had has been the only one since the 80s.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Adam

Had one in a summer game a few years ago, I was gun-shy for a while after that. Not with blowing the whistle, but I was extra careful about showing my prelim.

Right - that's what I meant. And it's a good thing, too, because on Tuesday night, I was working with a big hitter (state tourney guy) who scolded me for not blowing and holding from the outside after I had told him about my blarge pre-game. He stressed blowing and holding from the outside for our game. So what does he do the first time we have a block/charge? Blows and punches from C when I'm the L with my fist in the air. It was straight down the middle of the paint. He apologized next dead ball. Just goes to show - it can happen with even the most respected guys. I would have had the same call as him, but still....

[HokiePaul]

As I understand it, there are basically 4 possibilities if you have a blarge. Get together with partners and figure out which applies.

1) Ball had not been released yet by A1 when fouls occurred --> Report both fouls. No basket scored. Ball to A as A had team control at the POI.
2) Ball had been released on shot by A1 and shot is good --> Score basket, report both fouls. Award Ball to B who may run the end line.
3) Ball had been released on shot by A1 and shot is not good --> Report both fouls. Award Ball based on possession arrow at the spot nearest the foul.
4) Ball had been released on a pass to teammate when the fouls occurred --> Report both fouls. Ball to A as A maintained team control on a pass.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Rich

I've had one in my career. JUCO mens game about 5-6 years ago. I was the lead, it was a no-brainer block in the lane, and as I'm banging the block, the trail (3-person) was pointing the other way.

I looked over at the C, and I swear he was laughing. Later I found out it was because the charge call from the T was so bad he was laughing at what he knew my reaction was going to be later. We went double foul without a second thought and both coaches were unhappy, as you'd expect.

Anyhow, our crew has gotten sloppy this season, I'll admit -- it's something we need to clean up. We had a no-brainer player control foul in the dreaded triple whistle area last week, and I wouldn't be surprised if all three of us pointed it the other way. Seems we only ever do this on easy, no-brainer fouls, but I'm afraid it's going to happen when we have one that's not quite so easy. Hasn't bitten us yet...and the one I've had has been the only one since the 80s.

So, can you go with the majority on a triple whistle?

[jeremy341a]

Originally Posted by Adam

So, can you go with the majority on a triple whistle?

two out of three ain't bad according to Meatloaf

[Rich]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

two out of three ain't bad according to Meatloaf

As I've told my daughter: In math class, 2 out of 3 is a D.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

As I understand it, there are basically 4 possibilities if you have a blarge. Get together with partners and figure out which applies.

1) Ball had not been released yet by A1 when fouls occurred --> Report both fouls. No basket scored. Ball to A as A had team control at the POI.
2) Ball had been released on shot by A1 and shot is good --> Score basket, report both fouls. Award Ball to B who may run the end line.
3) Ball had been released on shot by A1 and shot is not good --> Report both fouls. Award Ball based on possession arrow at the spot nearest the foul.
4) Ball had been released on a pass to teammate when the fouls occurred --> Report both fouls. Ball to A as A maintained team control on a pass.

It is not necessary to report both fouls. You can confer and go with one call. Check with your assignor and see how it is to be handled where you work.

[BryanV21]

I don't understand the problem with picking one of the fouls and going with it.

Sure, one of the coaches is going to be upset, but does that matter? Are we to make changes to calls based on coaches being upset with it? If so, then we're going to be changing quite a bit.

And it seems to me that only one of the calls is correct. It can't be a charge and a block. I mean, both can happen, but not at the same time. So why would an assignor take issue with getting together, and figuring out which one to go with? And going with the primary officials call seems like the best course of action.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

I don't understand the problem with picking one of the fouls and going with it.

Sure, one of the coaches is going to be upset, but does that matter? Are we to make changes to calls based on coaches being upset with it? If so, then we're going to be changing quite a bit.

And it seems to me that only one of the calls is correct. It can't be a charge and a block. I mean, both can happen, but not at the same time. So why would an assignor take issue with getting together, and figuring out which one to go with? And going with the primary officials call seems like the best course of action.

Why indeed. Not to mention that the conclusion cannot be logically drawn in the first place that both fouls must be reported, based on the case play or anything else. Still, check with your assignor, as this is the dominant interpretation in this case.

"Ruling a double foul on a block/charge would not be the thing to do."

Theresia D. Wynns Editor NFHS Publications

[jeremy341a]

Originally Posted by Rich

As I've told my daughter: In math class, 2 out of 3 is a D.

I never said Meatloaf was right!

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by just another ref

It is not necessary to report both fouls. You can confer and go with one call. Check with your assignor and see how it is to be handled where you work.

Not according to the Case Book. Two signals=double foul.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Not according to the Case Book. Two signals=double foul.

Depends on how you interpret the case. Show me the part where it mentions signals at all. And then show the part that requires both fouls be reported, no matter what happened.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

My two partners earlier this year had a blarge, and they went with a charge based on the fact that it was in that official's primary.

I think this would be a very hard sell in NFHS. You could possibly do it in college, if there is definite knowledge that the defender is in the RA, but otherwise it'd be tough.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by frezer11

I think this would be a very hard sell in NFHS. You could possibly do it in college, if there is definite knowledge that the defender is in the RA, but otherwise it'd be tough.

"Hard sell" to who? The coaches? The players? The fans? My response to all three... who cares? What matters is getting the call right, and it seems to me that the right thing to do is find out what happened, instead of settling for a double foul, because you can't have both a charge and a block on this play.

If you want to know what to tell coaches, here you go... "coach, I was in the best position for that call, and that is how I saw it." Is he going to like it? Maybe not, but that's hardly the first or last call he's going to disagree with. So why change the way it should be done to accommodate him this time?

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by just another ref

"Ruling a double foul on a block/charge would not be the thing to do."

Theresia D. Wynns Editor NFHS Publications

Did you ever ask her what the casebook play was supposed to mean?