Kentucky-Florida 4 second call?? (Video)

[JRutledge]

Play #1: The play only shows 3 chops. I am wondering if this was not cut off a little, but I am not surprised if this was a little quick.

Play #2: Looks like a travel before he dribbles the ball. I can see why it might have been missed as players were all around the ball.

Play #3: That is a travel. I do not like where the Trail had to come from to get this. He should have been more in the play IMO. And if he was closer he might have helped sell the call.

Play #4: I think it was a good call. I do not think that it was a flop. Maybe a little embellishment but he was hit in the chest and did get displaced.

Peace

[mutantducky]

1 no opinion

3 and 4 were good calls. Good teamwork on 3.
But for 2...I thought it was a clear violation at first. But then I'm slowing it down and not seeing it. An awkward dribble to start but I don't think there was a travel but I could be wrong.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

1 no opinion

3 and 4 were good calls. Good teamwork on 3.
But for 2...I thought it was a clear violation at first. But then I'm slowing it down and not seeing it. An awkward dribble to start but I don't think there was a travel but I could be wrong.

Seriously? You need to look again. He is very clearly off the ground when he starts the dribble. Textbook.

[mutantducky]

first two times I saw it I thought it was a violation. I'm just not 100% certain I still do.

So a travel before the dribble? Or could they have called a double dribble when he got it again, when he had his arms back like "I can't touch it".

[mutantducky]

to quote form Billy Mac
https://forum.officiating.com/basket...4-version.html

Is this why you guys are seeing a travel?
To start a dribble, the ball must be released before the pivot foot is lifted.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

to quote form Billy Mac
https://forum.officiating.com/basket...4-version.html

Is this why you guys are seeing a travel?
To start a dribble, the ball must be released before the pivot foot is lifted.

Yes, that, plus the fact that he also replanted his pivot foot, so he traveled 2 different ways on the same play.

[jeremy341a]

On play 4 the offensive foul, should the T get the first crack at this since it is in his PCA? Although the C has the better view since the T is so far away and not nearly as good of an angle.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

On play 4 the offensive foul, should the T get the first crack at this since it is in his PCA? Although the C has the better view since the T is so far away and not nearly as good of an angle.

You answered your own question.

I'm really anxious to hear Nevada's opinion now that we have the video.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Whatever side the ball is on. Trail and Lead. Because he typically doesn't have any competitive matchups in his area and helps out the Lead who is reffing waist up and watching for contact. What do I win??

All of those are correct. Now when you consider that the Center isn't as close to a post match-up as the Lead and this extra distance permits him to see floor to ceiling instead of just looking for contact from the waist up, you will understand why the Center can call his own travel violations as well as look for fouls and doesn't need the Trail coming in to help. Often the post player situation on the C's side is merely 1 v 1 as it is the weak side and the ball comes there quickly on a short pass from the strong side. This means that the C has a clear and open look at these players in his PCA. If the play doesn't finish quickly and several players come over to contest the action, the Lead should rotate and the old C becomes the new Trail and continues to look for traveling. Either way, the old Trail is not involved. That's how it works in theory anyway.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I'm really anxious to hear Nevada's opinion now that we have the video.

I just went and watched the video clip (actually watched it three times, with emphasis on the last few seconds showing the view from the endline).

Here is what I see. The player has trouble catching the pass with his left hand and does not gain control until his puts both hands on the ball. At this time his left foot is on the floor and his right is in the air, so the left foot will become his pivot foot once the right foot touches the court. It does and he pump fakes the defender. In doing so, he slightly moves his left foot before beginning a dribble. He then gets crushed by the defender. Both the Lead and Center signal for a foul, and the Trail then comes in and calls a travel.
So here are the issues:
a. Does the player actually travel? Yes, there is small movement of the pivot foot before the dribble.
b. Does the Center have a clear and unobstructed view of this play in his PCA? Yes, so it is his call all the way and he passed on the foot movement and called a foul.
c. Ant v Elephant: has this amount of foot movement been called a travel all game or will this be the first time it is penalized? With 52 seconds left, should the Trail come into his partner's PCA and call the travel (the ant) or let his partner go ahead with calling the foul for the kid getting smashed (the elephant)?
I think that the T came and got an ant when everyone else in the building was watching the elephant on the court.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I just went and watched the video clip (actually watched it three times, with emphasis on the last few seconds showing the view from the endline).

Here is what I see. The player has trouble catching the pass with his left hand and does not gain control until his puts both hands on the ball. At this time his left foot is on the floor and his right is in the air, so the left foot will become his pivot foot once the right foot touches the court. It does and he pump fakes the defender. In doing so, he slightly moves his left foot before beginning a dribble. He then gets crushed by the defender. Both the Lead and Center signal for a foul, and the Trail then comes in and calls a travel.
So here are the issues:
a. Does the player actually travel? Yes, there is small movement of the pivot foot before the dribble.
b. Does the Center have a clear and unobstructed view of this play in his PCA? Yes, so it is his call all the way and he passed on the foot movement and called a foul.
c. Ant v Elephant: has this amount of foot movement been called a travel all game or will this be the first time it is penalized? With 52 seconds left, should the Trail come into his partner's PCA and call the travel (the ant) or let his partner go ahead with calling the foul for the kid getting smashed (the elephant)?
I think that the T came and got an ant when everyone else in the building was watching the elephant on the court.

Slightly. Right.

I am the first one to make fun of the almost insane nitpicking of traveling some do around here, but this travel aids in the pump fake that draws the crash onto the ball handler. So you'd advocate not only missing that travel, but also calling the foul on the defender.

[Nevadaref]

I don't understand how the slight movement of the left foot aided the player in his pump fake. It's not as if he took a large step to a new location or went two feet into the air. His foot perhaps came an inch off the floor.

I don't think that this foot movement had a major influence on the upper body movement or the player bracing for the impending contact.

I certainly don't see this slight foot movement as something that I'd come 45 feet to get in front of my partner who has a clear and open look at the action.