Correctable error - wrong way jump

[jeremy341a]

Originally Posted by JeffM

Suppose Coach A produced a rule book and a case book play, would the R have looked at it? Would most officials look at the rule book or just go by what they know to be true? I would look at it and hope to resolve it quickly.

1. Protest Procedure (MSHSAA Board Policy): The Board of Directors adopted the following policy, March 1997,
to address protests. The Board acknowledges that mistakes are made by officials in judgment and even
sometimes in misapplication of game rules. However, the decisions rendered by officials at the contest site are
to be final and any further process other than the one outlined below would not truly serve a useful purpose in
the overall scope of high school athletics.
a. Within the procedures established within each individual sport rule code, the head coach must request a
review of an official’s application of a rule through appropriate channels.
b. If, after the review is complete, the coach still believes there has been a misapplication of a rule by a contest
official(s), the coach shall then file a formal verbal protest with the game officials who will then notify the
opposing coach immediately of the protest. A coach shall not protest a decision of judgment.
c. Following this notification of protest, the head coach shall be allowed approximately ten minutes to use
his/her National Federation Rules Book, National Federation Case Book, MSHSAA Rules Meeting
Announcements and/or MSHSAA Sport Manual to locate and show the game official(s) the appropriate rule
reference which clarifies a misapplication of the game rule. If the head coach does not have personal
copies of the above mentioned materials at the game site or the specific rule reference(s) or case book
play(s) cannot be located within the maximum allowable ten minutes, the protest shall automatically be
disallowed and the game shall continue from the point of interruption. If a rule reference(s) or case book
play(s) is found that indicates a misapplication of a rule has occurred, the official’s decision shall be
corrected at that time before any further action occurs, and the contest shall be resumed from the point of
interruption after the correction as provided in the contest rules. When appropriate, the game officials may
assist the head coach in locating appropriate rule and case book references.
d. All protests shall be resolved at the contest site before any further game action occurs.
e. Protests that are not filed in a timely manner by that sport rule code shall be automatically disallowed.
f. The MSHSAA Board of Directors and/or staff shall not review contest protests.
2. Application of Protest Procedure
a. Introduction: Protests rarely occur and the new protest procedure policy is not intended to increase the
frequency of protests. It is however, intended to resolve the protest on site. For this to occur the following
must take place:
i. Coaches and officials must be professional with each other. This should be a non-confrontational
conference.
ii. As stated above, protests involve application of rules only – not judgment calls. (Examples of items
which could be protested: Football – penalizing 5 yards instead of 15 yards; Wrestling – allowing one
minute for injury time instead of two minutes; Softball – allowing only two charged defensive
conferences instead of three.) (Examples of items which could not be protested: Football – pass
interference; Wrestling – stalling; Softball – out or safe calls.)
iii. Get It Right! If the official has made a mistake – admit it, correct it and move on.
Contest officials and the head coach filing the official protest shall notify the MSHSAA Office in writing of any
contest in which an official protest has occurred and the resolution of that protest. The MSHSAA Special Report
Forms shall be used for this purpose.
b. Process
i. Once a head coach has filed a formal verbal protest with the game officials, they shall then notify the
opposing head coach of the protest and the playing field, court, mat, etc. shall be cleared of all
participants and they shall report to their respective team bench areas.
ii. The head coach shall then be allowed approximately ten minutes to locate specific rule references from
the NFHS Rules Book, NFHS Case Book, MSHSAA Rules Meeting Announcements and/or MSHSAA
Sport Manual to substantiate the claim that a misapplication of a game rule has occurred. The game
officials shall also confer among themselves during the period to address the claim of the coach as to
the potential rule misapplication.
iii. If the head coach is able to produce rule evidence from the above mentioned sources to support the
claim of a misapplication of a game rule, the officials shall correct the error as provided in the contest
rules and the contest shall proceed from the point of interruption. If the head coach cannot produce the
evidence, the protest shall be disallowed and the contest shall continue from the point of interruption.
The previously mentioned materials must be immediately available for review at the playing field
sideline, courtside, mat side, etc. (Time shall not be provided to go to a locker room, team bus, coach’s
office, etc.)
3. Once the final decision

http://www.mshsaa.org/resources/pdf/...ballManual.pdf

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

1. Protest Procedure (MSHSAA Board Policy): The Board of Directors adopted the following policy, March 1997,
to address protests. The Board acknowledges that mistakes are made by officials in judgment and even
sometimes in misapplication of game rules. However, the decisions rendered by officials at the contest site are
to be final and any further process other than the one outlined below would not truly serve a useful purpose in
the overall scope of high school athletics.
a. Within the procedures established within each individual sport rule code, the head coach must request a
review of an official’s application of a rule through appropriate channels.
b. If, after the review is complete, the coach still believes there has been a misapplication of a rule by a contest
official(s), the coach shall then file a formal verbal protest with the game officials who will then notify the
opposing coach immediately of the protest. A coach shall not protest a decision of judgment.
c. Following this notification of protest, the head coach shall be allowed approximately ten minutes to use
his/her National Federation Rules Book, National Federation Case Book, MSHSAA Rules Meeting
Announcements and/or MSHSAA Sport Manual to locate and show the game official(s) the appropriate rule
reference which clarifies a misapplication of the game rule. If the head coach does not have personal
copies of the above mentioned materials at the game site or the specific rule reference(s) or case book
play(s) cannot be located within the maximum allowable ten minutes, the protest shall automatically be
disallowed and the game shall continue from the point of interruption. If a rule reference(s) or case book
play(s) is found that indicates a misapplication of a rule has occurred, the official’s decision shall be
corrected at that time before any further action occurs, and the contest shall be resumed from the point of
interruption after the correction as provided in the contest rules. When appropriate, the game officials may
assist the head coach in locating appropriate rule and case book references.
d. All protests shall be resolved at the contest site before any further game action occurs.
e. Protests that are not filed in a timely manner by that sport rule code shall be automatically disallowed.
f. The MSHSAA Board of Directors and/or staff shall not review contest protests.
2. Application of Protest Procedure
a. Introduction: Protests rarely occur and the new protest procedure policy is not intended to increase the
frequency of protests. It is however, intended to resolve the protest on site. For this to occur the following
must take place:
i. Coaches and officials must be professional with each other. This should be a non-confrontational
conference.
ii. As stated above, protests involve application of rules only – not judgment calls. (Examples of items
which could be protested: Football – penalizing 5 yards instead of 15 yards; Wrestling – allowing one
minute for injury time instead of two minutes; Softball – allowing only two charged defensive
conferences instead of three.) (Examples of items which could not be protested: Football – pass
interference; Wrestling – stalling; Softball – out or safe calls.)
iii. Get It Right! If the official has made a mistake – admit it, correct it and move on.
Contest officials and the head coach filing the official protest shall notify the MSHSAA Office in writing of any
contest in which an official protest has occurred and the resolution of that protest. The MSHSAA Special Report
Forms shall be used for this purpose.
b. Process
i. Once a head coach has filed a formal verbal protest with the game officials, they shall then notify the
opposing head coach of the protest and the playing field, court, mat, etc. shall be cleared of all
participants and they shall report to their respective team bench areas.
ii. The head coach shall then be allowed approximately ten minutes to locate specific rule references from
the NFHS Rules Book, NFHS Case Book, MSHSAA Rules Meeting Announcements and/or MSHSAA
Sport Manual to substantiate the claim that a misapplication of a game rule has occurred. The game
officials shall also confer among themselves during the period to address the claim of the coach as to
the potential rule misapplication.
iii. If the head coach is able to produce rule evidence from the above mentioned sources to support the
claim of a misapplication of a game rule, the officials shall correct the error as provided in the contest
rules and the contest shall proceed from the point of interruption. If the head coach cannot produce the
evidence, the protest shall be disallowed and the contest shall continue from the point of interruption.
The previously mentioned materials must be immediately available for review at the playing field
sideline, courtside, mat side, etc. (Time shall not be provided to go to a locker room, team bus, coach’s
office, etc.)
3. Once the final decision

http://www.mshsaa.org/resources/pdf/...ballManual.pdf

Jeremy:

I opened the entire document that you posted above and I have one question from the chart of fan support items that are either allowed or not allowed.

Why are animals prohibited in all sports except Tennis?

MTD, Sr.

[jeremy341a]

I don't know. Maybe they use dogs to fetch the balls in the net.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by JeffM

I agree that coach A would be livid. However, several people - including coach A and all of Team A's players - could have recognized that the jumpers were lined up the wrong way.

Pretty sure it's not their job to recognize this. If I were coaching I know I'd not be happy.

BallGame- Do you know what the R's justification was? Not that it matters, he was wrong, but I'm curious why one would have that thought in the first place.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by jeremy341a

1. Protest Procedure (MSHSAA Board Policy): The Board of Directors adopted the following policy, March 1997,
to address protests. The Board acknowledges that mistakes are made by officials in judgment and even
sometimes in misapplication of game rules. However, the decisions rendered by officials at the contest site are
to be final and any further process other than the one outlined below would not truly serve a useful purpose in
the overall scope of high school athletics.
a. Within the procedures established within each individual sport rule code, the head coach must request a
review of an official’s application of a rule through appropriate channels.
b. If, after the review is complete, the coach still believes there has been a misapplication of a rule by a contest
official(s), the coach shall then file a formal verbal protest with the game officials who will then notify the
opposing coach immediately of the protest. A coach shall not protest a decision of judgment.
c. Following this notification of protest, the head coach shall be allowed approximately ten minutes to use
his/her National Federation Rules Book, National Federation Case Book, MSHSAA Rules Meeting
Announcements and/or MSHSAA Sport Manual to locate and show the game official(s) the appropriate rule
reference which clarifies a misapplication of the game rule. If the head coach does not have personal
copies of the above mentioned materials at the game site or the specific rule reference(s) or case book
play(s) cannot be located within the maximum allowable ten minutes, the protest shall automatically be
disallowed and the game shall continue from the point of interruption. If a rule reference(s) or case book
play(s) is found that indicates a misapplication of a rule has occurred, the official’s decision shall be
corrected at that time before any further action occurs, and the contest shall be resumed from the point of
interruption after the correction as provided in the contest rules. When appropriate, the game officials may
assist the head coach in locating appropriate rule and case book references.
d. All protests shall be resolved at the contest site before any further game action occurs.
e. Protests that are not filed in a timely manner by that sport rule code shall be automatically disallowed.
f. The MSHSAA Board of Directors and/or staff shall not review contest protests.

Wow! This is real? I've never seen anything like it. Are most coaches aware of it? Seems like a nightmare to me

[Adam]

Originally Posted by frezer11

Pretty sure it's not their job to recognize this. If I were coaching I know I'd not be happy.

BallGame- Do you know what the R's justification was? Not that it matters, he was wrong, but I'm curious why one would have that thought in the first place.

It may not be their job, but they see fit to help us out the rest of the game, why wouldn't they do the same thing here?

If I was the coach, I wouldn't be happy either, but you still have to act like an adult.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by Adam

It may not be their job, but they see fit to help us out the rest of the game, why wouldn't they do the same thing here?

If I was the coach, I wouldn't be happy either, but you still have to act like an adult.

If I were a coach or player and knew something was wrong, of course I'd say so at the time, but if I don't see it, I don't think that means I've forfeited my right to be upset that the crew working my game screwed up a rule. I think you can not be happy with what was happening and still act like an adult at the same time. It didn't sound like they gave out a T in the OP, but he probably got close. If an official screws up a judgment call, tough luck it happens all the time, but if he screws up a rule? That' the time where I think coaches are a little more justified in their complaints.

[sj]

Originally Posted by griblets

I would expect the coach to be more than a little upset if a mis-applied rule cost him the first possession of OT.

He should be ok. He gets two out the next three arrows. )

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by frezer11

Pretty sure it's not their job to recognize this. If I were coaching I know I'd not be happy.

Hmm. Seems to me that, yeah, players and coaches should both know what direction they are going. Unless the officials spun them around to direct them to the wrong baskets, I think the players and coaches 100% share the blame for going the wrong direction. If you were coaching and let your team go the wrong direction, you should be very unhappy with yourself -- as well as your players and the refs. I sure know my coaches when I played expected us to have enough game awareness that we wouldn't let that happen.

[ballgame99]

Originally Posted by frezer11

BallGame- Do you know what the R's justification was? Not that it matters, he was wrong, but I'm curious why one would have that thought in the first place.

He was using the argument that possession hadn't been established yet, but it was tapped strait to an uncontested A player who dribbled at least once before the whistle blew. That was what I was trying to explain to him. Team A ended up winning so we didn't hear anything more about it.

[jeremy341a]

Originally Posted by frezer11

Wow! This is real? I've never seen anything like it. Are most coaches aware of it? Seems like a nightmare to me

Yes it is real and I have never seen anyone attempt to do it.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by frezer11

If I were a coach or player and knew something was wrong, of course I'd say so at the time, but if I don't see it, I don't think that means I've forfeited my right to be upset that the crew working my game screwed up a rule. I think you can not be happy with what was happening and still act like an adult at the same time. It didn't sound like they gave out a T in the OP, but he probably got close. If an official screws up a judgment call, tough luck it happens all the time, but if he screws up a rule? That' the time where I think coaches are a little more justified in their complaints.

I don't disagree, but during the game, if he crosses the line, I'm still going to stick him. I'm not going to be operating under the assumption that I'm getting the rule wrong at the time, or I wouldn't be getting it wrong.

Being "livid" seems to me he was close to a T, and I just don't see it. It's one possession, that's it. Worst case scenario, it will mean one less possession for his team that game. It's just as likely (50/50) that the AP possessions will even out over the game.

"Coach, I understand you're frustrated, but you've said your piece and it's time to move on."

[twocentsworth]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Then it wouldn't matter. Technical Foul on Coach A; Ball on the sidelines for Team B after the free throws. Arrow to Team A.

That's an interesting way to handle this situation...the R gets a rule wrong; won't listen to his partner (who is correct); then proceeds to T the coach who actually shows him a rulebook/casebook that proves the R is wrong....

I guess if the R is going to "go down w/ his ruling"....he might as well "go down in flames".

If I'm the assignor, I'll give the R plenty of time to read/learn the rulebook during the next game that he WAS scheduled to work for me.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by twocentsworth

That's an interesting way to handle this situation...the R gets a rule wrong; won't listen to his partner (who is correct); then proceeds to T the coach who actually shows him a rulebook/casebook that proves the R is wrong....

I guess if the R is going to "go down w/ his ruling"....he might as well "go down in flames".

If I'm the assignor, I'll give the R plenty of time to read/learn the rulebook during the next game that he WAS scheduled to work for me.

Any assignor would be just as upset with NOT T'ing the coach for this as they would with the mis-application of the rule. I would love to see you go over the rule book with the coach when he pulls it on you.