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Old Fri Feb 03, 2006, 02:42pm
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In overtime, without noticing, the players line up the wrong way for a jump ball and then a kicked ball is called on the visiting team, but no one ever established possession. After finding out that the players were lined up the wrong way the official felt that they had a violation that negated the jump ball situation, and since the violation was going to give the home team the ball, then they felt like the possession arrow should be given to the visiting team. Can the jump ball situation be a correctable error even though you have a violation or is the jump ball not a correctable error because of the violation?

Thanks in advance.
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Old Fri Feb 03, 2006, 02:54pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by John Schaefferkoetter
In overtime, without noticing, the players line up the wrong way for a jump ball and then a kicked ball is called on the visiting team, but no one ever established possession. After finding out that the players were lined up the wrong way the official felt that they had a violation that negated the jump ball situation, and since the violation was going to give the home team the ball, then they felt like the possession arrow should be given to the visiting team. Can the jump ball situation be a correctable error even though you have a violation or is the jump ball not a correctable error because of the violation?

Thanks in advance.
Award the ball to the non-violating team (4-3-3a) and point them in the correct direction (4-5-4)
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Old Fri Feb 03, 2006, 03:03pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by John Schaefferkoetter
In overtime, without noticing, the players line up the wrong way for a jump ball and then a kicked ball is called on the visiting team, but no one ever established possession. After finding out that the players were lined up the wrong way the official felt that they had a violation that negated the jump ball situation, and since the violation was going to give the home team the ball, then they felt like the possession arrow should be given to the visiting team. Can the jump ball situation be a correctable error even though you have a violation or is the jump ball not a correctable error because of the violation?

Thanks in advance.
John,

Two addtional points.

One. In going the wrong direction, all points scored, fouls committed, and time consumed shall count as if the team had gone the proper direction.

Two. Be careful what you call a "Correctable Error." Correctable Errors are specifically enumerated in 2-10-1 and only involve free throws and scoring. There are only five (5) as follows:

Failure to award a merited free throw.
Awarding an unmerited free throw.
Permitting a wrong player to attempt a free throw.
Attempting a free throw at the wrong basket.
Erroneously counting or canceling a score.

Additionally, the administration of these is somewhat complicated.
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Old Fri Feb 03, 2006, 03:36pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kajun Ref N Texas

Additionally, the administration of these is somewhat complicated.
Especially if it occurs at the end of a game...
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Old Fri Feb 03, 2006, 04:01pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by John Schaefferkoetter
In overtime, without noticing, the players line up the wrong way for a jump ball and then a kicked ball is called on the visiting team, but no one ever established possession. After finding out that the players were lined up the wrong way the official felt that they had a violation that negated the jump ball situation, and since the violation was going to give the home team the ball, then they felt like the possession arrow should be given to the visiting team. Can the jump ball situation be a correctable error even though you have a violation or is the jump ball not a correctable error because of the violation?

Thanks in advance.
No, Since the team B caused the violation awarding the ball to the home team. (1) You will point the teams in the right direction.(2)After, the ball is at team A disposal for the throw-in you will set the PA in team A direction. Once team A completes the throw-in the arrow will be changed to team B.
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Old Fri Feb 03, 2006, 05:29pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kajun Ref N Texas
Be careful what you call a "Correctable Error." Correctable Errors are specifically enumerated in 2-10-1 and only involve free throws and scoring. There are only five (5) as follows:

Failure to award a merited free throw.
Awarding an unmerited free throw.
Permitting a wrong player to attempt a free throw.
Attempting a free throw at the wrong basket.
Erroneously counting or canceling a score.

Additionally, the administration of these is somewhat complicated.
True. The technical term Correctible Error rightly belongs to 2-10. And I know you know this, but I think it bears stating: There is other "stuff" that is fixable. Examples include timing mistakes, record keeping mistakes, giving the ball to the wrong team for a throw-in (until the throw-in ends). There is more to the list than that. It would be unfortunate to leave somebody with the mistaken impression that if it ain't in 2-10, it can't be fixed.
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Old Sun Feb 05, 2006, 07:13am
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Quote:
Originally posted by truerookie
(2)After, the ball is at team A disposal for the throw-in you will set the PA in team A direction.
Why would you do this? Once the ball is at Team A's disposal, wouldn't you simply point the arrow towards Team B at that point?
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Old Sun Feb 05, 2006, 07:39am
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:
Originally posted by truerookie
(2)After, the ball is at team A disposal for the throw-in you will set the PA in team A direction.
Why would you do this? Once the ball is at Team A's disposal, wouldn't you simply point the arrow towards Team B at that point?
You dont change it until they have successfully inbounded the ball, I believe. If there is a violation by B, then A gets another inbounding opportunity, without losing the arrow. Right?
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Old Sun Feb 05, 2006, 09:00am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Skarecrow
Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:
Originally posted by truerookie
(2)After, the ball is at team A disposal for the throw-in you will set the PA in team A direction.
Why would you do this? Once the ball is at Team A's disposal, wouldn't you simply point the arrow towards Team B at that point?
You dont change it until they have successfully inbounded the ball, I believe. If there is a violation by B, then A gets another inbounding opportunity, without losing the arrow. Right?
My point is that Team A never gets the arrow at all in that situation. You don't point the arrow to Team A and then switch it to Team B. Once the ball is at Team A's disposal to start the game, the arrow is immediately set toward Team B.
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Old Mon Feb 06, 2006, 09:20am
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1. You cannot redo the jumpball even though the players were facing the wrong direction. You had a violation and it was called. You move on from there.
2. Chuck is right about the initial setting of the arrow.
3. If a held ball/AP situation occurred prior to this throw-in being administered, you would have to have another jump ball in the center circle since the AP has not yet been established. Although with the new POI rule, I can't even think of a situation that would warrant this.
There were plenty under last season's rules.


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Old Mon Feb 06, 2006, 03:29pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:
Originally posted by truerookie
(2)After, the ball is at team A disposal for the throw-in you will set the PA in team A direction.
Why would you do this? Once the ball is at Team A's disposal, wouldn't you simply point the arrow towards Team B at that point?
That is another approach, I will initially set the arrow in case something occurs which my cause Team a to lose the AP throw-in. It is a method I would use.
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Old Mon Feb 06, 2006, 04:43pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by truerookie
Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:
Originally posted by truerookie
(2)After, the ball is at team A disposal for the throw-in you will set the PA in team A direction.
Why would you do this? Once the ball is at Team A's disposal, wouldn't you simply point the arrow towards Team B at that point?
That is another approach, I will initially set the arrow in case something occurs which my cause Team a to lose the AP throw-in. It is a method I would use.
This initial throw-in is NOT an AP throw-in. It's a throw-in for a violation.

The arrow is INITIALLY SET when the ball is given to A (there are other cases / times when it's INITIALLY SET). IT doesn't reverse after this throw-in.

See the rules on SETTING the arrow and REVERSING the arrow -- I don't have the books handy, but it's in either rule 4 or rule 6, iirc.
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Old Thu Feb 09, 2006, 07:08am
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Quote:
Originally posted by truerookie
Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:
Originally posted by truerookie
(2)After, the ball is at team A disposal for the throw-in you will set the PA in team A direction.
Why would you do this? Once the ball is at Team A's disposal, wouldn't you simply point the arrow towards Team B at that point?
That is another approach, I will initially set the arrow in case something occurs which my cause Team a to lose the AP throw-in. It is a method I would use.
Sorry, bud, but that is NOT just another approach. Chuck's statement is the correct way to do this. Your method does not amount to the same thing for all circumstances, so please stop using it and follow what is stated in rule 4-3.

RULE 4, SECTION 3 SETTING DIRECTION OF INITIAL ARROW
Alternating-possession control is established and the initial direction of the possession arrow is set toward the opponent's basket when:
ART. 1 . . . A player secures control of the ball, as after the jump ball.
ART. 2 . . . The ball is placed at the disposal of the free thrower after a common foul when the bonus free throw is in effect.
ART. 3 . . . The ball is placed at the disposal of the thrower after:

a. A violation during or following the jump before a player secures control.

b. The free throws for a noncommon foul.
c. A common foul before the bonus free throw is in effect.

NOTE: This procedure is used only to establish the alternating-possession procedure. See 6-4 for using the procedure and reversing the possession arrow.
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Old Thu Feb 09, 2006, 10:37am
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Lightbulb

Alright, already. The light finally came on. I read the rule. I totally understand. Thanks!!
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