Rules Question on strange D1 Ending (Video)

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Pretty sure it does. I've spoken with several college officials who have told me to try to find a way to say he was pushed out and only call this if there was clearly no contact causing the player to go OOB.

Sounds like officials that like to make things up. I don't usually listen to those.

Either he stepped out on his own or he didn't. If he was contacted and stil went out on his own, trying to find a excuse to avoid making the call is cowardly.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Sounds like officials that like to make things up. I don't usually listen to those.

Either he stepped out on his own or he didn't. If he was contacted and stil went out on his own, trying to find a excuse to avoid making the call is cowardly.

Dunno about you but I tend to listen to college referees. I'm not saying lie and say he was pushed out when he wasn't. And if a player was pushed out then it's a valid excuse, not cowardly.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Dunno about you but I tend to listen to college referees. I'm not saying lie and say he was pushed out when he wasn't. And if a player was pushed out then it's a valid excuse, not cowardly.

I listen to some and don't listen to others. Some officials move up by BS'ing their way along. I have no use for those.

You said they suggested you find a way to say they were pushed out. Either they were pushed out or not. I don't need to find a way to say they were pushed out.

[crosscountry55]

So yeah, I get the college rule now. It's clear about going out of bounds and then being the first to receive a pass.

That part in red isn't in the NFHS rule for a "player OOB for an unauthorized reason." So in essence, you could call it right away in HS, though in practice I think we wait to see the result of the play, i.e. did the player gain a big advantage by avoiding a pick, getting an open look jumper, etc. I think that's the intent of the NFHS rule; it's just a bit more carefully encoded in the NCAA rules.

Thoughts? And/or how would you handle this same situation in a HS game?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

So yeah, I get the college rule now. It's clear about going out of bounds and then being the first to receive a pass.

That part in red isn't in the NFHS rule for a "player OOB for an unauthorized reason." So in essence, you could call it right away in HS, though in practice I think we wait to see the result of the play, i.e. did the player gain a big advantage by avoiding a pick, getting an open look jumper, etc. I think that's the intent of the NFHS rule; it's just a bit more carefully encoded in the NCAA rules.

Thoughts? And/or how would you handle this same situation in a HS game?

I'd enforce the rule and call a violation. It's really that simple.

[Raymond]

Incidental contact could cause a player to step OOB. That would not be leaving the court voluntarily, nor would it be a foul.

[MechanicGuy]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Incidental contact could cause a player to step OOB. That would not be leaving the court voluntarily, nor would it be a foul.

This.

Don't agree at all with the idea that if there's no foul he went out voluntarily.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Incidental contact could cause a player to step OOB. That would not be leaving the court voluntarily, nor would it be a foul.

I don't agree. Either the contact is a foul or the player leaving the court is at risk of being penalized with a violation (if first to touch in NCAA).

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by MechanicGuy

This.

Don't agree at all with the idea that if there's no foul he went out voluntarily.

Got a ruling to back your opinion?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Got a ruling to back your opinion?

The rule says "voluntarily". It doesn't say "if there is no foul".

[Coach Bill]

Many offensive players get bumped while trying to rub off screens. Most of the time, the official passes on that contact (i.e., no foul). But, now if the contact moves him a tiny bit and the offensive steps on the line it's a foul, or if he is the first to touch, it's a violation. I guarantee the good officials are going to deem this non-voluntary, and play on.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

Many offensive players get bumped while trying to rub off screens. Most of the time, the official passes on that contact (i.e., no foul). But, now if the contact moves him a tiny bit and the offensive steps on the line it's a foul, or if he is the first to touch, it's a violation. I guarantee the good officials are going to deem this non-voluntary, and play on.

I can see it both ways -- if a player doesn't have room to slip by a screener without stepping out of bounds even if they brush...it's voluntary.

[Coach Bill]

Originally Posted by Rich

I can see it both ways -- if a player doesn't have room to slip by a screener without stepping out of bounds even if they brush...it's voluntary.

I agree with that.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Coach Bill

I agree with that.

I'd like to see a look down the end line. Without that, I really can't do much other than trust the judgement of the D1 official that's standing right there looking at it.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Rich

I can see it both ways -- if a player doesn't have room to slip by a screener without stepping out of bounds even if they brush...it's voluntary.

An offensive player and defensive player could bump into each other and it be incidental. The offensive player could step OOB as a result. I'm not calling a violation on that.