Rules Question on strange D1 Ending (Video)

[Kend]

I have a rules question involving a D1 men's game.

An offensive player (O1) is running along the baseline with a screen being set on the right side of the lane. He steps on the baseline as he goes past the screen, then cuts to the wing area. He takes 7 steps while completely inbounds and establishes position 15 feet from the nearest boundary. While he has been running, his PG has been dribbling the ball. After O1 has established position 15 feet inbounds, the PG passes the ball to him. Whistle blows for O1 receiving a pass at this point. Is this correct? The rule and case law that may apply are vague and poorly written.

Second part. IF this a technical violation, would you call it with 11 seconds left in a tie game? For perspective, O1 was not looking to shoot when he caught the ball and he gained no advantage stepping on the line.

Third part (which I left out earlier to simplify): O2 stepped on the baseline initially because he was jostled by a defender. Does that affect the ruling?


Thanks for any help on understanding this.

[deecee]

I don't think the whistle blew for what you think it blew for.

[Kend]

Originally Posted by deecee

I don't think the whistle blew for what you think it blew for.

It definitely did blow for exactly the reason I stated. The referee said so at the time, and the league also stated that was the reason after the game due to the many questions from the press and others. They cited the following as justification:

Rule 9. Section 4. Player Out of Bounds Art. 1.
A player who steps out of bounds under his own volition and then becomes the first player to touch the ball after returning to the playing court has committed a violation. a. A violation has not been committed when a player, who steps out of bounds as permitted by Rule 7-4.6.b, does not receive the pass along the end line from a teammate and is the first to touch the ball after his return to the playing court.


I am not sure the referee made a correct application of the above rule.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by Kend

It definitely did blow for exactly the reason I stated. The referee said so at the time, and the league also stated that was the reason after the game due to the many questions from the press and others. They cited the following as justification:

Rule 9. Section 4. Player Out of Bounds Art. 1.
A player who steps out of bounds under his own volition and then becomes the first player to touch the ball after returning to the playing court has committed a violation. a. A violation has not been committed when a player, who steps out of bounds as permitted by Rule 7-4.6.b, does not receive the pass along the end line from a teammate and is the first to touch the ball after his return to the playing court.


I am not sure the referee made a correct application of the above rule.

Since we cannot tell if the player was out of bounds or not from the video, I will assume that he did in fact go out of bounds while cutting across the endline. In that case, you are wrong. The official was exactly correct in his application of the rule. Further, this has been a POE from the NCAA-M coordinator of officials the entire season and has been highlighted multiple times in his weekly videos sent to NCAA-M officials.

[JRutledge]

I do not care if it is 10 seconds into the game or 10 seconds left, if there is an obvious violation of the rules, it must be called, close game or blowout.

I have no idea honestly what you are asking. I am not so sure what the call was on the court is what you are necessarily describing here.

Peace

[Rich]

Show me a video and I'll have an opinion.

[Kend]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not care if it is 10 seconds into the game or 10 seconds left, if there is an obvious violation of the rules, it must be called, close game or blowout.

I have no idea honestly what you are asking. I am not so sure what the call was on the court is what you are necessarily describing here.

Peace

The call on the court is exactly as I described it, which is pretty clear. In short, a player without the ball stepped on the baseline while going past a screen, then returned to a position 15 feet from the baseline and about 6 feet from the sideline. Took 7 steps after he was clearly inbounds. Then he received a pass from a teammate who had been holding the ball prior to that point. As the player who ran the baseline received the pass, the referee said it was a violation for him to touch a pass from a teammate at that point. I have seen identical plays thousands of times over the 50 years I have been involved in basketball as a player, ref, and coach. Never saw that call or heard about it being called.

Video: http://new.livestream.com/bucknell/Bucknellmbb (click on Colgate-Bucknell game, and then advance it to the final 30 seconds which can be found at about 1:55:00 on the video)

(Note that the announcer at the time had no idea what the call was. It was explained by the referee to the coach and then later identically explained by the league office.)


I truly am trying to understand this call and would appreciate some honest feedback.

[Raymond]

You need to provide a clip of the play, I'm not searching thru the entire game. Also need a link to the article where the league comments on the call. And finally, how do we know how far OOB the player stepped out?

[Raymond]

also, that one rule has been around for a while.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

You need to provide a clip of the play, I'm not searching thru the entire game. Also need a link to the article where the league comments on the call. And finally, how do we know how far OOB the player stepped out?

It was easy to find -- first possession after the timeout with 20.7 seconds left.

College game, so it doesn't really matter how far. He stepped out when he wasn't entitled to and received a pass from a teammate, becoming the first player to subsequently touch the ball after he stepped out. Correct application of the rule.

7-4-6.b has to do with a player who is allowed to leave the playing court when a team is allowed to inbound from any point along the end line (which, of course, includes a player stepping out of bounds to receive a pass from a teammate). Such a player is allowed to be the first to touch the ball subsequently. Doesn't apply here, obviously.

[JRutledge]

Yes it was a good call if the player goes out of bounds. It is a rule. And John Adams would want this called. You cannot see the player run out of bounds on the camera, but if he goes out of bounds to get an advantage, it should be called if he is the first to touch the ball during a pass. And yes it should be called in that situation. It probably was not even close either.

Please stop putting stock in what announcers say. They do not know the rules either. Even his description of the play showed how clueless he was. I did not even need to see the play to know what the rule was that applied here.

Peace

[APG]

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Yes it was a good call if the player goes out of bounds. It is a rule. And John Adams would want this called. You cannot see the player run out of bounds on the camera, but if he goes out of bounds to get an advantage, it should be called if he is the first to touch the ball during a pass. And yes it should be called in that situation. It probably was not even close either.

Peace

While we can't see if it was OOB directly, the spot, speed, and angle where we see him enter the video would strongly suggest he came from OOB.

...and I agree with your assessment.

[Adam]

If the league office is aware of the call to the point where they've issued a statement, then you likely know whether the league office approves of the call that was made. In that case, what do you want from people who don't have any input to that league office?