Rules Question on strange D1 Ending (Video)

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

An offensive player and defensive player could bump into each other and it be incidental. The offensive player could step OOB as a result. I'm not calling a violation on that.

I don't necessarily disagree with that. But like I said above, if the defensive player doesn't give enough room to get by...I could see contact and still expect it to be a violation.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

An offensive player and defensive player could bump into each other and it be incidental. The offensive player could step OOB as a result. I'm not calling a violation on that.

Right. I've only had this violation in one game this season, and I had it twice (very rare), once for each team. In both cases, an offensive player made more than a few steps over the endline, trying to pass his defender.

My partner for that game had one of those teams later in the season, and the same kid did the same thing!

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

An offensive player and defensive player could bump into each other and it be incidental. The offensive player could step OOB as a result. I'm not calling a violation on that.

Either the contact inhibits the normal movements of an opponent and constitutes a foul or the player went to that location of his own volition and thus is subject to the violation rule. What you are doing is either ignoring a foul or ignoring a potential violation.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I don't agree. Either the contact is a foul or the player leaving the court is at risk of being penalized with a violation (if first to touch in NCAA).

A1 and B1 run parallel down the sideline. They both look back in anticipation of an outlet pass. There is contact. (if this contact had happened in the center of the court nobody would have thought twice about it) As the contact occurs, A1 steps on the line. The outlet pass comes and A1 makes a leaping catch. You would call this a violation?

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Either the contact inhibits the normal movements of an opponent and constitutes a foul or the player went to that location of his own volition and thus is subject to the violation rule. What you are doing is either ignoring a foul or ignoring a potential violation.

Apparently there's no gray area for you. I'd love to see video of one of your games, could you hook me up?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by just another ref

A1 and B1 run parallel down the sideline. They both look back in anticipation of an outlet pass. There is contact. (if this contact had happened in the center of the court nobody would have thought twice about it) As the contact occurs, A1 steps on the line. The outlet pass comes and A1 makes a leaping catch. You would call this a violation?

Yes, and the way you've written this OOB violation may be the proper call.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Yes, and the way you've written this OOB violation may be the proper call.

So what would it take to be not "of his own volition" for you?

A1 slips on a wet spot and falls to the floor. In doing so, his foot touches the sideline. He jumps to his feet (inbounds) catches the ball and shoots.

Is this a violation?

[letemplay]

Was going to start a new thread on this question but it seems closely relevant (rule wise anyways) Saw this play run a few times in a game Sat and opposing coach wanting a T: Baseline OOB throw under A's basket, after A1 makes the throw in, he remains OOB at that spot for several seconds as the ball is passed among his teammates, then he runs to corner to receive a pass, I suppose hoping the defense loses track. Any violation for NOT returning inbounds soon after throw?

EDIT: Sorry, I see I should have read another thread for a more similar play and question.

[Pantherdreams]

What if contact is caused by a teammate? Two crossing teammates bump one steps on endline/past gatherhing balance?

What if contact is not a foul. Defensive player holding position in the middle of the key entitled to their post and offensive player not paying attention runs into the defender and bounces off and steps on baseline as a result?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

What if contact is caused by a teammate? Two crossing teammates bump one steps on endline/past gatherhing balance?

What if contact is not a foul. Defensive player holding position in the middle of the key entitled to their post and offensive player not paying attention runs into the defender and bounces off and steps on baseline as a result?

The rule reads as "voluntarily". To me, those are not voluntary actions. I feel comfortable not calling a violation in those situations.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by letemplay

Was going to start a new thread on this question but it seems closely relevant (rule wise anyways) Saw this play run a few times in a game Sat and opposing coach wanting a T: Baseline OOB throw under A's basket, after A1 makes the throw in, he remains OOB at that spot for several seconds as the ball is passed among his teammates, then he runs to corner to receive a pass, I suppose hoping the defense loses track. Any violation for NOT returning inbounds soon after throw?

Coach may have had a point. I don't have my book in front of me, but when a thrower purposely delays returning inbounds in order to deceive, it's a Technical Foul on the player.

Conversely, when a thrower is not involved and you have players going OOB for unauthorized reasons, it's a violation.

Interestingly for the sake of NFHS trivia and/or future exam questions, this along with the excessively swinging elbows violation are the two violations (when committed by opponents of the shooter) that do not cause the ball to become dead when a try is in flight. Usually it's a foul that activates this exception, but there are two violations that do as well.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

Coach may have had a point. I don't have my book in front of me, but when a thrower purposely delays returning inbounds in order to deceive, it's a Technical Foul on the player.

Conversely, when a thrower is not involved and you have players going OOB for unauthorized reasons, it's a violation.

Interestingly for the sake of trivia and/or future exam questions, this along with the excessively swinging elbows violation are the two violations that do not cause the ball to become dead when a try is in flight. Usually it's a foul that activates this exception, but there are two violations that do as well.

The ball becomes dead unless the violations you mentioned are committed by the opponent. I shoot, ball is in the air. You're on my team and run out of bounds or swing your elbows. ball dead. you cost us two points. (my shots always go in here
Didn't want you missing the trivia question….thx
Your trivia is about NFHS. NCAAm swinging arms and elbows also makes the ball dead unless try in flight and opponent does it.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

An offensive player and defensive player could bump into each other and it be incidental. The offensive player could step OOB as a result. I'm not calling a violation on that.

Nor am I.

I have to see the player clearly and deliberately take a path OOB before i call that violation.

And I don't think they really even intended for this to be a violation if the player merely steps on the line but could have easily not.

[Rooster]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

What you are doing is either ignoring a foul or ignoring a potential violation.

Or applying the principle of incidental contact...

[letemplay]

As per 10-3-2, is remaining at the throw in spot (oob) for several seconds then coming immediately straight onto court the same as running the baseline or sideline and coming on at the corner for example? Would a player be deceiving the defense by just standing in the spot after making the pass?