Can Refs Help Improve Youth Play (Videos)

[Rich]

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909

I admit I'm "That Guy" on the coaching box rule, but does anyone besides me have an issue in the the very first video with both coaches off the bench? (1 kneeling and 1 standing?) Would you pass on it in youth level but talk to the bench in the Varsity level?

I wouldn't care at any level...unless the assistant was calling attention to himself, if you know what I mean.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909

I admit I'm "That Guy" on the coaching box rule, but does anyone besides me have an issue in the the very first video with both coaches off the bench? (1 kneeling and 1 standing?) Would you pass on it in youth level but talk to the bench in the Varsity level?

Yes I care. I only care in the sense to set a standard. I do not want assistants standing or violating the rule and like this tape, I am shown not applying the rule. I do not T these just because, I just correct it by talking to the coach. The coaching box has been a big deal in our state and I have let coaches know we will enforce this rule if they put us in that situation.

Peace

[Rich]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Yes I care. I only care in the sense to set a standard. I do not want assistants standing or violating the rule and like this tape, I am shown not applying the rule. I do not T these just because, I just correct it by talking to the coach. The coaching box has been a big deal in our state and I have let coaches know we will enforce this rule if they put us in that situation.

Peace

I'm with you if he's constantly off the bench. I'd probably notice that.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by dsqrddgd909

I admit I'm "That Guy" on the coaching box rule, but does anyone besides me have an issue in the the very first video with both coaches off the bench? (1 kneeling and 1 standing?) Would you pass on it in youth level but talk to the bench in the Varsity level?

I have a problem with an AC up AND showing a reaction to the call.

[Adam]

If he's up a) consistently or b) coaching me, it's going to get addressed.

HC will likely get a polite reminder in "a". In "b", there may or may not be a warning before a technical foul.

[Rich1]

If the AC remains standing , address it.
If the AC is whinning or reacting to calls, address it.
If the AC is squatting/kneeling at the bench to skirt the standing up rule, address it.


But if the AC is simply squatting/kneeling in front of their chair while coaching their team I have no problem with it until a line gets crossed. I they are moving to different places or only kneeling when we look their way then I am suspect but maybe the AC is just "sitting" in a way that is more comfortable (perhaps a back injury???).

Two examples:

I have worked games in small gyms that did not have enough seats for the whole team. When some players were standing I told coach they would have to sit, even if that meant sitting on the floor. One of the AC's gave up his seat and kneeled at the end of the bench so layers could sit. I did not make him sit all the way down.

I had a game where the an AC who was tracking stats on an ipad would kneel in front of the bench to get a better view. She didn't move around, never said a word, didn't coach the players, and drew no attention to herself other than the fact that she would kneel in front of her chair to see better. Saw no reason to address it.

For me it boils down to understanding the intent of the coaching box & only the HC standing rule. It is there so we can address problems and that's what I look for.

[so cal lurker]

Coach-

I didn't make it through all the posts, so if I'm repeating, apologies. I've coached and parented and Jr high and below, I played in HS, and I reffed MS as an untrained ref back in HS.

A few thoughts:

Don't waste your time worrying about what the refs are going to call at this level. The variety of skills, training, styles are going to be such that the simple fact is it's going to vary. And it is going to vary from oh-my-god-horrible to so-so. You are going to have refs who call based on myths, on what they saw on TV last week, and what they remember from when they played. Live with it. (Even if your MS league decided to up the pay, the simple fact is that the best refs have more fun doing higher level games and are going to do that even if the pay is the same.)

Even better officials often have trouble adjusting as the level of play can vary dramatically. My son's 8th grade CYO team (which is pretty decent) was playing in a tournament where the game before had two attoricious teams. The refs had to be lax about travelling, etc., between these two unskilled teams or it would have been a whistle fest from which the boys would have learned nothing and had no fun. Our game was more skilled and competitive -- it took the refs several minutes to readjust to the skill level of that game. It's just the nature of the age.

What does that mean as a coach. It means you need to teach your players:
*How to play through contact -- there are simply going to be days when a lot of contact is allowed and they have to deal with and just keep playing
*How to avoid contact that might be called as a foul when they are on defense
*How to adjust to what the refs are calling today
*How to play the game and focus on playing not the refs

Sometimes you just need to mutter the serenity prayer under your breath ("grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change . . . .")

At the end of the day, I think far too many coaches (and I am very able to be guilty of this, and have even this season) can get too focussed on the calls and the refs to the detriment of the players. If we focus on the kids on our team, and on teaching them skills and how to work as a team, those bad and inconsistent calls are going to balance out.

[VaTerp]

Coach- Let me first say that in this day and age where internet forums are filled with people like me who think they know everything, its encouraging to see someone genuinely seeking to learn. I haven't gone through this whole thread but you've received some great feedback already and I'd like to add a few things from the perspective of someone who has coached, officiated, and run various levels of youth sports leagues for local parks and rec agencies, boys and girls clubs, and AAU tournaments.

I very much concur with the post above. There are a few facts that you are going to have to accept about the officiating at the level of ball that you are now coaching-

* Officials CAN help improve youth play but that is NOT their objective or priority. A lot goes into officiating that non-officials likely do no think about. Referees at this level are often learning themselves and their objective is to learn how to officiate not teach kids how to play. That's what the coaches are for.

* Officiating this level of play is often more challenging than higher levels b/c the players lack body control making it hard to determine whether or not its the actual contact placing players at a disadvantage. Remember that, by rule, all contact is not a foul and many players at this age/level become off balanced on their own accord. They also lack overall fundamentals and skill resulting in awkward execution of moves that make it difficult to judge legality. Combine this with the point above regarding less experienced refs and you are going to get officiating that ranges from awful at worst to inconsistent at best.

*You have no control over the officiating and should not expect very experienced, or frankly, very good officials to be working these types of games. Expecting these games to be officiated at a high level would be the same as expecting your kids to play the game at a high level. Do you get as frustrated that your kids don't shoot over 50%, execute complex offensive sets, finish above the rim, etc.? Of course not. And you actually have some control over their play as opposed to the performance of the officials. And frankly, if the videos you posted are the worst of the officiating at your games, then you don't have it that bad. A lot of those plays have no impact on the game and/or are calls that are going to be missed by having 2 officials as opposed to 3 person crews that work most games at the varsity level and up.

Given these things I would offer the following advice:

* Adjust your perspective and Stop focusing on, and stressing over, the officiating. You have no control over it, should not have any reasonable expectation that these types of games will included experienced high level officials, and as you admitted you have limited rules knowledge yourself, which makes you less than qualified to offer a true critique of the officiating.

* Take your energy and instead invest it in your players and yourself as a coach. Its great that you sought out this forum to learn more about officiating but your focus should really be on learning more about coaching the game. Are you attending any trainings/clinics for coaching? Reading books about coaching? Finding drills on teaching fundamentals? Asking local HS or other experienced coaches if you can attend their practices or summer camps? I don't know how much time you have or what you ultimately want to get out of this but there are lots of resources out there if you truly want to get better as a coach. And it would be time MUCH better spent than worrying about the officiating or coming to this site.

* Even if you don't have a lot of time and are only coaching at this level to "help out" or something along those lines, I would at the very least search the web or go to the library for some basic resources on coaching and drilling fundamentals. Regardless the skill level of your players, you can never go wrong teaching fundamentals of the game. And if your players are fundamentally sound, they will get the benefit of the doubt on officiating over the long haul. And more importantly it will lead to a better experience and they will get more out of playing this game, even if it's just to pass time and get some exercise once or twice a week.