Definite Knowledge?

[crosscountry55]

It's not very often that you have a wall clock that does not display 1/10ths of a second but a box at the table that does. If this happens, it may be because the 1/10ths of a second function is not enabled on the box.

Moral of the story: Apply 2-4-1 before the game and "inspect and approve all equipment....". If you notice the clock is not displaying 1/10ths of a second as the pre-game clock is winding down, check with the timer to see if said function is disabled.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I disagree. The clock is on the table, the display of the clock is on the wall.

If the clock at the table has 0.2, we have 0.2 and we can know it. Why ignore it?

Because the teams can't see it. The game clock is what is required by rule 1-15.
"A visible game clock and scoreboard are mandatory. An alternate timing device and scoring information system shall be available in the event of malfunction."

The console at the table is not the visible game clock required by rule.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

It's not very often that you have a wall clock that does not display 1/10ths of a second but a box at the table that does. If this happens, it may be because the 1/10ths of a second function is not enabled on the box.

Moral of the story: Apply 2-4-1 before the game and "inspect and approve all equipment....". If you notice the clock is not displaying 1/10ths of a second as the pre-game clock is winding down, check with the timer to see if said function is disabled.

Had that occur on Wednesday. While watching the warmup period count down the final minute was in full seconds without a display of tenths. When I inquired about it, the coach let us know that he selected "yes" for the tenths in the program and even reset the box and did it again, but it still wouldn't show.

We told both coaches before the game about this and that any corrections would be made in full seconds, the period would end on the horn not zero on the clock, plus the .3 rule would not apply.

What happened? Shooting fouls occurred at the end of both the second and third periods with 0:00 on the clock, but no horn. The timer confirmed there were tenths left on the console in both cases, so we lined players up on the lane for the FTs. The times were 0.7 and 0.4 in the two cases.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

We told both coaches before the game about this and that any corrections would be made in full seconds, the period would end on the horn not zero on the clock,

I could be wrong, but I believe the period ends on the horn, not zero, whether the clock displays tenths or not. What's the rule on this?

[SNIPERBBB]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I could be wrong, but I believe the period ends on the horn, not zero, whether the clock displays tenths or not. What's the rule on this?

ART. 2

Each quarter or extra period ends when the signal illuminates or sounds indicating time has expired, as in 1-14.

1-14
A red light behind each backboard or an LED light on each backboard is permitted to signal that time has expired for a quarter or extra period. In facilities without a red light behind or an LED light on each backboard, the audible timer's signal shall indicate that time has expired.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB

ART. 2

Each quarter or extra period ends when the signal illuminates or sounds indicating time has expired, as in 1-14.

1-14
A red light behind each backboard or an LED light on each backboard is permitted to signal that time has expired for a quarter or extra period. In facilities without a red light behind or an LED light on each backboard, the audible timer's signal shall indicate that time has expired.

Like I thought. Thanks.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I could be wrong, but I believe the period ends on the horn, not zero, whether the clock displays tenths or not. What's the rule on this?

That is correct. The horn or light ends the period in HS.
We simply wanted to be clear to the coaches in case a stoppage occurred with under one second remaining, and sure enough...

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

That is correct. The horn or light ends the period in HS.
We simply wanted to be clear to the coaches in case a stoppage occurred with under one second remaining, and sure enough...

So what are your thoughts on the situation of less than 0.3, and informing both coaches of that time? As long as you are consistent and fair, with this be a major issue rather than ignoring the 0.3 rule?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by frezer11

So what are your thoughts on the situation of less than 0.3, and informing both coaches of that time? As long as you are consistent and fair, with this be a major issue rather than ignoring the 0.3 rule?

I would follow the rule. No tenths showing means that we don't use the rule.
One sure way to get yourself into trouble is to ignore a rule and instead do what you think is fair.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Nevadaref? A little help here, please.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

1-15. "A visible game clock and scoreboard are mandatory. An alternate timing device and scoring information system shall be available in the event of malfunction."

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Because the teams can't see it. The game clock is what is required by rule 1-15.
"A visible game clock and scoreboard are mandatory. An alternate timing device and scoring information system shall be available in the event of malfunction."

The console at the table is not the visible game clock required by rule.

I have yet to see an invisible clock at the scorers table. I've been able to see them all.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I have yet to see an invisible clock at the scorers table.

A-ha. The plot thickens.

[Cav0]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Had that occur on Wednesday. While watching the warmup period count down the final minute was in full seconds without a display of tenths. When I inquired about it, the coach let us know that he selected "yes" for the tenths in the program and even reset the box and did it again, but it still wouldn't show.

Skip the next paragraph to avoid the backstory.

I have encountered this problem as both a student when I was playing and now as a scorekeeper or timer. I don't officiate but try to not be the ignorant person that most people seem to enjoy being when it comes to the rules, but I see a topic mentioned here I can help with. I noticed most (though there are probably plenty that are not) of these issues were using this controller, including the one at my school. So I went online and found the manual. I believe you can have the same problem on newer Fair-Play controllers, but the source of the problem is the same: people do not realize their scoreboard has a "jumping clock."

All of that backstop to say, people see the question "Jumping clock?" while programming the controller and think it doesn't sound like they have it and so they answer no. A jumping clock in scoreboard jargon is that the seconds "jump" to the minutes and the tenths appear in the seconds. So in the future you can also suggest they make sure the "jumping clock" is enabled.

[paulsonj72]

Originally Posted by Cav0

Skip the next paragraph to avoid the backstory.

I have encountered this problem as both a student when I was playing and now as a scorekeeper or timer. I don't officiate but try to not be the ignorant person that most people seem to enjoy being when it comes to the rules, but I see a topic mentioned here I can help with. I noticed most (though there are probably plenty that are not) of these issues were using this controller, including the one at my school. So I went online and found the manual. I believe you can have the same problem on newer Fair-Play controllers, but the source of the problem is the same: people do not realize their scoreboard has a "jumping clock."

All of that backstop to say, people see the question "Jumping clock?" while programming the controller and think it doesn't sound like they have it and so they answer no. A jumping clock in scoreboard jargon is that the seconds "jump" to the minutes and the tenths appear in the seconds. So in the future you can also suggest they make sure the "jumping clock" is enabled.

That manual seems complicated. Back when I was in high school(years ago) my school got a new scoreboard when I was in 9th grade. Two people, myself and our varsity timer ended up knowing how to run the thing in its entirety so for every B squad game as well as junior high games when I was able too that year I ended up running the board. Jump forward three years when the school we paired with got a new scoreboard just like the one we had gotten. The night of the 1st home basketball game at their gym that year, I got the assignment of teaching the timer how to run the board. There however, was no jumping clock then as the only place that tenths of a second was used on the clock was in the NBA. And that was the 1st year that rule was in place.(I'm showing my age here by stating that)

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I have yet to see an invisible clock at the scorers table. I've been able to see them all.

In the context of basketball, a visible clock is one on which the time can be seen by the players and officials on the court while play is going on.

I've never seen a console at the table with a display big enough for that.