OOB rule clarification

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Adam

This is a "loophole" of sorts, not allowed. Camron's point is that you should, in this case, consider one or both of the feet to be the pivot for purposes of the traveling rule.

wheels churning more..i think i can read language of art 2a1 to mean that the player who lands simultaneously has established A "pivot foot" even though we don't know yet if it is right or left foot...

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BigCat

wheels churning more..i think i can read language of art 2a1 to mean that the player who lands simultaneously has established A "pivot foot" even though we don't know yet if it is right or left foot...

Not really...but I'm not sure that it would lead to any practical difference.

When 1 is lifted, the other becomes the pivot foot. When 2 are lifted, 1 is also lifted creating a pivot foot. Can't tell which came up first, pick one. It will not matter which you pick since it is traveling for either foot to come down before releasing the ball on a try/pass.

Sort of like the trick trivia questions: How many months have 28 days? Answer: All of them have 28 days....some a a few more too.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Not really...but I'm not sure that it would lead to any practical difference.

When 1 is lifted, the other becomes the pivot foot. When 2 are lifted, 1 is also lifted creating a pivot foot. Can't tell which came up first, pick one. It will not matter which you pick since it is traveling for either foot to come down before releasing the ball on a try/pass.

Sort of like the trick trivia questions: Who many months have 28 days? Answer: All of them have 28 days....some a a few more too.

i get the 28 days one. i dont get the "when 2 are lifted, 1 is also lifted CREATING a pivot foot." i think players can and do leave floor with both feet simultaneously. if 1 is lifted the other is the pivot only because it, the other, remains in contact with floor longer. when they both go up at same time i dont see that action itself creating a pivot foot....

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BigCat

i get the 28 days one. i dont get the "when 2 are lifted, 1 is also lifted CREATING a pivot foot." i think players can and do leave floor with both feet simultaneously. if 1 is lifted the other is the pivot only because it, the other, remains in contact with floor longer. when they both go up at same time i dont see that action itself creating a pivot foot....

You're missing the point. When they jump off of both feet is one of the feet off the floor? Yes it is. If one foot is off the floor, the other is the pivot foot. Nothing says the pivot foot also has to be on the floor....they can lift it too.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

You're missing the point. When they jump off of both feet is one of the feet off the floor? Yes it is. If one foot is off the floor, the other is the pivot foot. Nothing says the pivot foot also has to be on the floor....they can lift it too.

well, that's an understatment....at least i know what you are saying now....

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BigCat

if 1 is lifted the other is the pivot only because it, the other, remains in contact with floor longer. when they both go up at same time i dont see that action itself creating a pivot foot....

If they both go up at the same time, it doesn't matter any more. The opportunity to have a pivot foot is gone. If you're asking if he can start a dribble in this case since a pivot foot had not been established, the answer is no.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by just another ref

If they both go up at the same time, it doesn't matter any more. The opportunity to have a pivot foot is gone. If you're asking if he can start a dribble in this case since a pivot foot had not been established, the answer is no.

the rule says you cant start a dribble with your pivot foot off the floor. if you never establish a pivot foot then you arent starting a dribble with a pivot foot off the floor.

Cameron and i are discussing what actions establish a pivot foot under travel rules...

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BigCat

the rule says you cant start a dribble with your pivot foot off the floor. if you never establish a pivot foot then you arent starting a dribble with a pivot foot off the floor.

It also says when neither foot can be a pivot, neither foot may be lifted before starting a dribble.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by just another ref

It also says when neither foot can be a pivot, neither foot may be lifted before starting a dribble.

in the play we have been talking about the player catches the ball with both feet off floor and lands on both simultaneously. either foot can be a pivot.

the rule you are citing now deals with after i catch ball with one foot on floor, jump off that foot and land simultaneously on 2 feet. neither can be a pivot in that situation. if i dribble i have to release it before lifting either foot.