Ejection

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

...

Absolutely. But not our place as officials to recommend that on the disqualification/ejection report. We state the facts. The school and state association determine any suspensions.

I was making the comment in reference to the fact that she was a student, on school grounds, during a sanctioned school event.

CoachP mentioned an adult meeting her at the end of her antics. It was probably the principal or one of his/her vices.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

What bothers me about the OP was that H5 was allowed by the Game Officials to walk unescorted by an adult from the Bench across the Court to where an adult was waiting.

When H5 was Disqualified for the 2nd TF with is a Flagrant TF by definition, someone from the officiating crew should have been escorting her to the Bench and that officials while informing her HC that she had been Disqualified for a FTF, that official should have informed her HC that H5 was to remain on the Bench because she was to remain under adult supervision. Usually that triggers the following response from the HC: "I don't want her on the Bench. Can I send her to our lockerroom." To which the official should have replied: "Yes, Coach, but she must remain under adult supervision at all times. From the Bench to the lockerroom and at all times while she is in the lockerroom."

The instant I would have seen H5 leaving the Bench area I would have been escorting her back to the Bench and asked her HC where H5 was going.

MTD, Sr.

[JRutledge]

Maybe I am alone in this, I would have no problem T'ing her up again for that little display. For one if we did not ask her to leave, she is bench personnel. The coach would learn at that point and might take further action. I am not going to be used for your frustration. Again the more action I take, the harder it is to blame me when all of this is in a report.

Peace

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Maybe I am alone in this, I would have no problem T'ing her up again for that little display. For one if we did not ask her to leave, she is bench personnel. The coach would learn at that point and might take further action. I am not going to be used for your frustration. Again the more action I take, the harder it is to blame me when all of this is in a report.

Peace

IMHO, this is an easy additional T (putting aside the questions of whether she should have been walking across the court alone in the first place -- one possibility is the Rs let it slide because they realized they shouldn't have let that happen in the first place -- but that is wild speculation on my part).

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Maybe I am alone in this, I would have no problem T'ing her up again for that little display. For one if we did not ask her to leave, she is bench personnel. The coach would learn at that point and might take further action. I am not going to be used for your frustration. Again the more action I take, the harder it is to blame me when all of this is in a report.

Peace

I agree. And I don't want to limit myself here, but from the sounds of the OP, I think I'd just give one additional. Maybe 2. But I would like to get the point across without significantly impacting the game and other players on the team. I don't have books handy, but I seem to remember a provision about forfeiting the game if a player/coach is making a mockery of the system (i.e., intentionally getting, 3,4,5 T's called after disqualification). Can someone confirm/deny our authority in that area?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by frezer11

I agree. And I don't want to limit myself here, but from the sounds of the OP, I think I'd just give one additional. Maybe 2. But I would like to get the point across without significantly impacting the game and other players on the team. I don't have books handy, but I seem to remember a provision about forfeiting the game if a player/coach is making a mockery of the system (i.e., intentionally getting, 3,4,5 T's called after disqualification). Can someone confirm/deny our authority in that area?

I would not forfeit the game. To me that would be if there was some noncompliance of the participants like the coaches or administration. That does not seem to be the case here.

I would just want the message to be shown so that the team hurt for the actions of the kid and take more responsibility for her actions. Maybe next time they will not allow them to go across the court in that situation.

Peace

[Rich1]

Would earn a quick T from me when she was still chirping from the bench and would also quickly advise coach of the indirect. If he is unable/unwilling to get her under control then he would soon be able to escort her himself.

[frezer11]

In the OP, when the player walks between the two refs and flips the bird (regardless of whether or not she should've been sent off) would you as an official hit a whistle and signal T at that time? Or wait until the little show was over and figure it out? I only ask because it seems to me that a kid like this clearly doesn't care anymore, and blowing the whistle and calling her for another might only escalate the matter. Thoughts?

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by frezer11

blowing the whistle and calling her for another might only escalate the matter. Thoughts?

Escalate which matter? The matter had already been escalated by the kid, whose coach is still responsible for her behavior. Keep in mind this is high school and if we don't penalize this behavior by a kid when it happens, we are not doing our job. The school can deal with the fallout afterward, but if the head coach can't control this kid, then the team has to pay the price for her actions and reactions. Forfeiting the game is extreme in this case - that wouldn't happen, but another T is absolutely going to happen.

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Escalate which matter? The matter had already been escalated by the kid, whose coach is still responsible for her behavior. Keep in mind this is high school and if we don't penalize this behavior by a kid when it happens, we are not doing our job. The school can deal with the fallout afterward, but if the head coach can't control this kid, then the team has to pay the price for her actions and reactions. Forfeiting the game is extreme in this case - that wouldn't happen, but another T is absolutely going to happen.

I'm not saying I wouldn't call another T, in fact I'm saying I would. I'm asking if you should make the same signal you would at any other time? It seems it might be wiser to observe the actions until things are under control, then inform the table of the Tech or possibly how many techs.

I guess I'm thinking about it this way: If you're one of the officials 4 feet away from her and blow the whistle right next to her and make your signal, good chance that enrages her further, and next she yells some obscenity at you for calling that. Then you call another. Then she responds. Then another.... You didn't do anything wrong here, but could this have been avoided by simply getting away from the player and reporting all T's after the incident?

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by frezer11

I'm not saying I wouldn't call another T, in fact I'm saying I would. I'm asking if you should make the same signal you would at any other time? It seems it might be wiser to observe the actions until things are under control, then inform the table of the Tech or possibly how many techs.

I guess I'm thinking about it this way: If you're one of the officials 4 feet away from her and blow the whistle right next to her and make your signal, good chance that enrages her further, and next she yells some obscenity at you for calling that. Then you call another. Then she responds. Then another.... You didn't do anything wrong here, but could this have been avoided by simply getting away from the player and reporting all T's after the incident?

After the first one (after she's already been ejected), I'd be moving toward the coach quickly and will likely give him a chance to go take care of the situation and get the kid out of the gym. If something like that happened, I'd be inclined to let the coach handle the situation and wait till she's gone and then resume play with all the free throws. I'm not likely to keep piling on T's with every stupid thing she does as long as someone is trying to get her the hell out of the gym.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Smitty

I'm not likely to keep piling on T's with every stupid thing she does as long as someone is trying to get her the hell out of the gym.

This. A third T is definitely warranted but anything beyond that will simply be documented in a report to the state.

[deecee]

If a player is DQ'd I don't care if the coach sends her off with or without supervision. I couldn't find anywhere in the rules where it was our responsibility to police the coach in whether or not he sent his kid off.

Can someone post the citation please?

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by deecee

If a player is DQ'd I don't care if the coach sends her off with or without supervision. I couldn't find anywhere in the rules where it was our responsibility to police the coach in whether or not he sent his kid off.

Can someone post the citation please?

Someone already did. See post #14

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by Smitty

After the first one (after she's already been ejected), I'd be moving toward the coach quickly and will likely give him a chance to go take care of the situation and get the kid out of the gym. If something like that happened, I'd be inclined to let the coach handle the situation and wait till she's gone and then resume play with all the free throws. I'm not likely to keep piling on T's with every stupid thing she does as long as someone is trying to get her the hell out of the gym.

I think we're on the same page here, I just wanted to be sure you wouldn't sit there and signal T after T in her face with each thing she did, that's the unnecessary escalation that I was referring to.