"Shooter Changes His Mind" Travel (Video)

[just another ref]

Violation. Even if he did touch the ball, and it's hard to say from this angle, the touch definitely didn't prevent the release.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Violation. Even if he did touch the ball, and it's hard to say from this angle, the touch definitely didn't prevent the release.

I thought you wouldn't call a violation if another teammate was in the area?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

I thought you wouldn't call a violation of another teammate was in the area?

I wouldn't call it immediately if a teammate was in the area. But he was the first to touch, which seals the deal no matter what.

[potato]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I wouldn't call it immediately if a teammate was in the area. But he was the first to touch, which seals the deal no matter what.

but not on the 1st page. i have edited it after seeing the video and added comments before you posted though...

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by just another ref

I wouldn't call it immediately if a teammate was in the area. But he was the first to touch, which seals the deal no matter what.

He wasn't the first to touch. The defender got his hand underneath and got to the ball first.

Obviously if A1 is the first to touch, it's a travel.

[potato]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

He wasn't the first to touch. The defender got his hand underneath and got to the ball first.

Obviously if A1 is the first to touch, it's a travel.

isn't it a double dribble? by dropping the ball and being the 1st touch the ball after the drop.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

The defender got his hand underneath and got to the ball first.

I missed it.

[just another ref]

Here's the deal, for those who haven't heard it before. As cited earlier by Nevada, when a dribble is illegal it occurs when the ball is pushed to the floor.

4.15.4 SITUATION A:

As dribbler A1 attempts to change directions to avoid guard B1, he/she allows the ball to come to rest in one hand in bringing the ball from the right to the left side of the body. A1 pushes the ball to the floor in an attempt to continue the dribble.

RULING: When A1 palmed/carried the ball, the dribble ended and when he/she pushed the ball to the floor a violation occurred. (9-5)


People say you can't judge intent. You can judge intent. We do it all the time on fouls. Two shots? Worst case scenario is this. A1 goes up to shoot, sees his shot will be blocked and drops the ball straight to the floor. He then assumes an aggressive stance and tries to screen the defender away from the ball while yelling to his teammate: "Hey, A2! Come get the ball. I can't touch it!" B1 then takes a swipe at the ball and knocks it out of bounds. If you didn't call the violation immediately, you give the ball back to Team A. I think this is wrong.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by just another ref

... when a dribble is illegal it occurs when the ball is pushed to the floor.

But one can also start a legal bounce pass when "the ball is pushed to the floor".

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Here's the deal, for those who haven't heard it before. As cited earlier by Nevada, when a dribble is illegal it occurs when the ball is pushed to the floor.

4.15.4 SITUATION A:

As dribbler A1 attempts to change directions to avoid guard B1, he/she allows the ball to come to rest in one hand in bringing the ball from the right to the left side of the body. A1 pushes the ball to the floor in an attempt to continue the dribble.

RULING: When A1 palmed/carried the ball, the dribble ended and when he/she pushed the ball to the floor a violation occurred. (9-5)


People say you can't judge intent. You can judge intent. We do it all the time on fouls. Two shots? Worst case scenario is this. A1 goes up to shoot, sees his shot will be blocked and drops the ball straight to the floor. He then assumes an aggressive stance and tries to screen the defender away from the ball while yelling to his teammate: "Hey, A2! Come get the ball. I can't touch it!" B1 then takes a swipe at the ball and knocks it out of bounds. If you didn't call the violation immediately, you give the ball back to Team A. I think this is wrong.

This debate comes up about every 4 to 6 months. It's never solved by consensus, because the NFHS has given both sides a citation that supports opposing points of view:

Case Book 9.5: A1 dribbles and comes to a stop after which he/she throws the ball against: (a) his/her own backboard; (b) the opponent's backboard; or (c) an official and catches the ball after each. RULING: Legal in (A); a team's own backboard is considered part of the team's "equipment" and may be used. In (b) and (c), A1 has violated; throwing the ball against an opponent's backboard or an official constitutes another dribble, provided A1 is first to touch the ball after it strikes the official or the board. (4-4-5; 4-15-1, 2; Fundamental 19) (italics added)

(And, Fundamental 19 dispells any argument that the ball touching the backboard is inherently different from touching the floor.)

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Violation. Even if he did touch the ball, and it's hard to say from this angle, the touch definitely didn't prevent the release.

Agree...touch is not enough to make it legal, the touch has to prevent the release....as in a held ball. You don't call a held ball just because opposing teams touch the ball at the same time.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Agree...touch is not enough to make it legal, the touch has to prevent the release....as in a held ball. You don't call a held ball just because opposing teams touch the ball at the same time.

NCAA rules are different. They have to come back to the floor with the ball unlike the NF rule to have a held ball.

Again, I see this as a blocked shot more than anything. It does look like the shooter tried to change something mid-air but it appears the ball was still kind of knocked out of his hand. If I had any doubt, that is what I would go with an not call a violation. But I am willing to go with a violation if I see a better angle or closer slow-motion view.

Peace