Nebraska/Indiana coaches confrontation

[bballref3966]

9:43 second half after a hard foul.

http://thebiglead.com/2014/12/31/vid...d-altercation/

Would anyone else consider handing out a double technical to get the coaches to stop acting like children?

[crosscountry55]

Not only would I, but I did once.

One coach was very late getting to the gym, the opposing coach made a snide comment about it at some point late in the first quarter, and then they were just back and forth with each other for the next 2-3 minutes. It was a quiet gym, so everyone in the stands could see and hear it. Quite embarrassing for everyone, including the players. After a staredown or two, I finally had enough. Ball was being advanced in the backcourt, they were being chippy again, and I whacked 'em both.

The weird thing was they both seemed to appreciate it because it gave them an excuse to shut up. Seat belt was fastened, add one team foul to both sides, and just inbound the ball at the POI. One of them said, "that's cool, as long as it doesn't affect the kids."

It was quite effective, it fit, and was very defendable. A tool in your toolkit if you ever need it.

[SC Official]

That was not a dirty play at all and does not warrant one-tenth of the pissy fit that Tom Crean throws. Then Tim Miles overreacted with his little "hold me back" episode and wouldn't let it go. At least Crean, who started the spat, walked away.

Both coaches acted like brats and are getting whacked if it's my game.

[Sharpshooternes]

Double T from me.

[BryanV21]

The game not only has to be held up because of them, but I also have to restrain one or both? Yeah... double-tech

[bballref3966]

Fans always say that they don't watch games to see officials make themselves the show. Well, I for one don't watch games to see the coaches make themselves the show. This episode, in my opinion, highlights one of the biggest problems facing college basketball.

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

It was quite effective, it fit, and was very defendable. A tool in your toolkit if you ever need it.

You are way too attached to this subjective, three-pronged criteria.
It is just some catch-phrase that a supervisor or camp clinician came up with.

[Nevadaref]

Wasn't Tom Crean involved in some pissing match with an opposing coach last year too?

Originally Posted by Bad Zebra

I can't second guess what the officials did...wasn't there and have no idea what the climate was leading up to the confrontation BUT to an outside observer, stopping the game and bringing them together just brought more attention to it. I certainly wouldn't try that move in a HS game...seems like gas on a fire to me.

Originally Posted by Scooby

I agree with Zebra, in hindsight, it seems like a bad idea bringing the coaches together. As for SC Official comment that Crean had not right to b****, if collage coaches only B****ed when they had a legitimate gripe they would have to figure out something new to do for half the game.

I'm not so sure the officials brought the coaches together on purpose. I would wager that Trail (my boy Kelly Pfeifer) heard some of the ish happening behind him but when C saw what was happening and came across the floor everyone arrived around the same time.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You are way too attached to this subjective, three-pronged criteria.
It is just some catch-phrase that a supervisor or camp clinician came up with.

After hearing this at camps over the past two years I tend to agree. I don't have time to think about this abstract criteria; sometimes you just gotta decide if someone needs a tech or not.

[SAJ]

Originally Posted by AremRed

I'm not so sure the officials brought the coaches together on purpose. I would wager that Trail (my boy Kelly Pfeifer) heard some of the ish happening behind him but when C saw what was happening and came across the floor everyone arrived around the same time.

Mayborg whistled from the C and then gestured towards Miles/Crean to meet at midcourt. Both were still in their boxes until then.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

You are way too attached to this subjective, three-pronged criteria.
It is just some catch-phrase that a supervisor or camp clinician came up with.

Actually it was a WNBA official that also worked as a replacement NBA official during the NBRA strike a few years back. And a Big 12 women's official.

So I tend to listen to what he has to say. His résumé isn't half bad.

By the way, I first heard it six years ago. The fact that it's still resonating on the camp circuit means it's gaining acceptance. I'm not saying I break out a checklist every time I consider a "T". It's a mental framework that you put in the back of your mind. It also helps with self-assessment after the fact, e.g., "now that the emotional moment has passed, was calling or not calling that "T" the correct action for the good of the game?"

[Nevadaref]

Actually it was a WNBA official that also worked as a replacement NBA official during the NBRA strike a few years back. And a Big 12 women's official.

So I tend to listen to what he has to say. His résumé isn't half bad.

By the way, I first heard it six years ago. The fact that it's still resonating on the camp circuit means it's gaining acceptance.

Sorry to inform you that this person didn't invent it. No doubt that he is your source for it, but it has been around WAY longer than six years.

I have heard different versions in both basketball and soccer for the past 20 years. In soccer, the use of yellow and red cards is similar to first and second techs in basketball and have been classified under the referees game and player management skills and evaluation for decades.

Sadly, some of these catch phrases become popular and are repeated, but are utterly useless for evaluation of a penalty. "Did it fit?" is the best example. That could mean just about anything to different people. One person could state that the coach was definitely outside of the box and complaining while another could say that the coach was only one step outside and wasn't overly boisterous. Way too subjective to be of any practical use.
"Was it effective?" is also pointless. By that standard if the player or coach continued to misbehave and earned another one and an ejection, then the first one must not have been effective and thus can't be classified as a quality technical foul. That's absurd.

Try simply using these evaluation criteria:
a. Was it warranted based upon the behavior or action of the individual?
b. Was it done in accordance with the rules?

That's all that you and your assignor will need.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

Sorry to inform you that this person didn't invent it. You doubt that he is your source for it, but it has been around WAY longer than six years.

I have heard different versions in both basketball and soccer for the past 20 years. In soccer, the use of yellow and red cards is similar to first and second techs in basketball and have been classified under the referees game and player management skills and evaluation for decades.

Sadly, some of these catch phrases become popular and are repeated, but are utterly useless for evaluation of a penalty. "Did it fit?" is the best example. That could mean just about anything to different people. One person could state that the coach was definitely outside of the box and complaining while another could say that the coach was only one step outside and wasn't overly boisterous. Way too subjective to be of any practical use.
"Was it effective?" is also pointless. By that standard if the player or coach continued to misbehave and earned another one and an ejection, then the first one must not have been effective and thus can't be classified as a quality technical foul. That's absurd.

Try simply using these evaluation criteria:
a. Was it warranted based upon the behavior or action of the individual?
b. Was it done in accordance with the rules?

That's all that you and your assignor will need.

No I'm sure he didn't invent it. But he did use it. That's good enough for me. Maybe it's not a useful tool for everyone, but I sure like it.

"Does it fit" is supposed to be subjective. That's the point. Does it fit the good of the game? I had a [expletive deleted] coach once who was awful. Earned a T early in the second quarter after a formal warning didn't phase him. But he kept at it, especially in the 2nd half. He honed in on me because I gave him the first one, almost baiting me to eject him. But the thing was, his team was losing by 30 and ultimately lost by 50. Ejecting the coach wouldn't have accomplished much of anything from a penalty standpoint other than interrupting the game and maybe making me feel a little better. So yes, I was thinking about the criteria the whole time. It didn't fit. Wouldn't have been good for the game. I could tell my partner was thinking the same thing, because he didn't run the coach, either. We talked about it after the game and agreed we'd done the right thing.

"Is it effective? is not fool proof. What works for 95% of penalty recipients will invariably not be enough for the other 5%. C'est la vie. I go with the odds.

So I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree. Besides, I don't see how your criteria are all that different from mine. To each his own.