Just like a test question!

[geh]

By rule yes, however . . .?
If someone was counting, they would know a definite amount of time to take off.

[mutantducky]

how would you not take off at least a second or two? You have definite knowledge that some time went off. In that situation I'm going to talk to my partner and figure out a good guess.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

how would you not take off at least a second or two? You have definite knowledge that some time went off. In that situation I'm going to talk to my partner and figure out a good guess.

Ooooh. This is a slippery slope. If you're guessing a "second or two," your knowledge is inherently not definite. You need official information like a count or something in this situation because that's how you sell your decision to an incredulous coach.

...Not saying taking a second or two off isn't appropriate if you say you had a 3-second count before the shot went up. Sounds like about 3-5 seconds elapsed in this scenario, so putting back the portion of the seconds that elapsed before the drive to the basket is reasonable.

What is it about clock operators having perfectly good games until the last 30 seconds of nailbiters?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

Ooooh. This is a slippery slope. If you're guessing a "second or two," your knowledge is inherently not definite.

I agree.

But, there is that interp about the clock starting early, but A2 catching the ball when it's noticed and the officials taking "some time off, likely tenths of seconds" that could be expanded to this situation.

Of course, there's also the competing case where OT starts with, say 8:00 on the clock, it isn't noticed until, say 7:00 and they put 4:00 on the clock, even though there's pretty much definite knowledge that 1:00 expired. (and the second half of that case where if the OT starts with less than 4:00, the time is added back)

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

how would you not take off at least a second or two? You have definite knowledge that some time went off. In that situation I'm going to talk to my partner and figure out a good guess.

That is what lifetime sub-varsity officials do. They don't like what the correct ruling is, so they opt not to follow it and make up a number. Don't guess!

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by mutantducky

how would you not take off at least a second or two? You have definite knowledge that some time went off. In that situation I'm going to talk to my partner and figure out a good guess.

I agree with this, except I'm not using a "good guess". Officials can correct obviois mistakes by the timer when he/she has definate information relative to the time involved. A visible count is not required -- any definative official information may be used.

In this case, you have definate knowledge that more than zero seconds elapsed. Start from there and go up until you are no longer certain that much time elapsed. I might guess that 5 seconds elapsed, but if I'm only certain that at least 3 seconds elapsed, then I'm only taking 3 seconds off the clock.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

I agree with this, except I'm not using a "good guess". Officials can correct obviois mistakes by the timer when he/she has definate information relative to the time involved. A visible count is not required -- any definative official information may be used.

In this case, you have definate knowledge that more than zero seconds elapsed. Start from there and go up until you are no longer certain that much time elapsed. I might guess that 5 seconds elapsed, but if I'm only certain that at least 3 seconds elapsed, then I'm only taking 3 seconds off the clock.

If I don't have a count, I'm not doing anything, because I don't have enough information.

[just another ref]

I ended a game once based on a count when the clock didn't start in the last few seconds. It was jr. high girls. Home team was down 3. Visitors booted the ball out of bounds with a second or two showing on the clock. I announced the game was over. Home coach later said "Thanks for robbing us of the chance to tie the game with a 3................even though we haven't made one all season. "

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

I agree. Any count which is going to be used to remove time needs to be a visible count in this age of video. I'm not getting called in later to defend a mental count. The arm swings will show up on the video.

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

That is what lifetime sub-varsity officials do. They don't like what the correct ruling is, so they opt not to follow it and make up a number. Don't guess!

You are ontradicting yourself there.

A 3 second count is not a guess. If you have one, you have definite knowledge as much as you do on a visual count. If you don't use it because you are worried about whether someone else will believe it, that seems to be against what you normally stand for.

[mutantducky]

Agreed Hokie.

If this happens to me, and I hope it doesn't as I've never had a situation like it. But if I know some time has elapsed, then I will take the conservative approach. So if I think 5 seconds have gone off, then I'll take 3 seconds off. You know the clock was stopped at a certain time. You know the ball was inbounded and dribbled. Time had to have gone off. It would be absurd in this situation not to take some time off.