Fan Ejection

[PAlbc]

You say both it's the GM's incompetence and that you would tell both coaches you would wait. So if some poor guy getting $30 to be a game manager is actually there it's not your problem, but if there isn't you'll wait. Why couldn't you wait in both cases?

I'm going to ask you point blank. If you are legally not allowed to do anything other than:

"Sir, the ref has asked to have you removed. Please come with me."

"No, F off. Suck my ----" (words the gentleman used last night).

"Fine, I'm calling the police."

Call to police is made, and GM and AD stand there (continuing to ask him to leave) and wait.

The whole point of the ejection is to punish them by not being able to watch the game in question, which they still get to do since they refuse to leave and you restarted play. Stand at the table for 1 minute, they guy will be pressured to leave (most likely by the visiting team coach, and his son who was on the team). Problem solved, unruly fan gone, situation diffused.

So what would you have them do? You say it's incompetence, so what is your solution? Or are you just going to go with the "it's not my problem" route? Your decision caused this problem so you should have some idea how to solve it if you say they are incompetent. It's rather sad if you don't understand (or care) that your decision forces someone else to have to deal with the repercussions.

I don't think common sense officiating would call for a technical foul in any situation where you have to eject a fan. If a fan is being a problem and needs to be addressed notify game management and continue the game. If the fan needs to leave notify game management and do not restart the game until the fan leaves. Peer pressure will force him out eventually.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by PAlbc

You say both it's the GM's incompetence and that you would tell both coaches you would wait. So if some poor guy getting $30 to be a game manager is actually there it's not your problem, but if there isn't you'll wait. Why couldn't you wait in both cases?

I'm going to ask you point blank. If you are legally not allowed to do anything other than:

"Sir, the ref has asked to have you removed. Please come with me."

"No, F off. Suck my ----" (words the gentleman used last night).

"Fine, I'm calling the police."

Call to police is made, and GM and AD stand there (continuing to ask him to leave) and wait.

The whole point of the ejection is to punish them by not being able to watch the game in question, which they still get to do since they refuse to leave and you restarted play. Stand at the table for 1 minute, they guy will be pressured to leave (most likely by the visiting team coach, and his son who was on the team). Problem solved, unruly fan gone, situation diffused.

So what would you have them do? You say it's incompetence, so what is your solution? Or are you just going to go with the "it's not my problem" route? Your decision caused this problem so you should have some idea how to solve it if you say they are incompetent. It's rather sad if you don't understand (or care) that your decision forces someone else to have to deal with the repercussions.

A lot of people act up in order to get attention, and by holding up the game you're giving them exactly what they want. And even if they don't care about attention, you're still making the other fans, players, coaches, and staff wait around because of that fool. Essentially, everybody has to pay for his/her crimes. How is that a better way to handle things?

Unless that fan is doing something that keeps me from being able to continue the game, such as running around the court, I'm not holding it up. To be frank, the game isn't about the fans... it's about the players. And I'll be damned if I'm going to make those players, and every other "innocent" person, suffer in any way because of one that a-hole.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

A lot of people act up in order to get attention, and by holding up the game you're giving them exactly what they want. And even if they don't care about attention, you're still making the other fans, players, coaches, and staff wait around because of that fool. Essentially, everybody has to pay for his/her crimes. How is that a better way to handle things?

Unless that fan is doing something that keeps me from being able to continue the game, such as running around the court, I'm not holding it up. To be frank, the game isn't about the fans... it's about the players. And I'll be damned if I'm going to make those players, and every other "innocent" person, suffer in any way because of one that a-hole.

If they are interfering with the game, I do not care what attention they are getting, I am having them removed. I do not have to put up with their crap because they choose to be an azz. And if they are ejected in my state, we have reports for that that the school will have to deal with the state. So I am perfectly in my power to have someone removed. If this fool wants to try it, then we will sit there until that time comes. And then everyone else in the gym knows that behaving that way they could result in the same action. And they probably are not coming back either if they make a big deal. Now when I work in those bigger arenas, then it might not be a different situation, but in a HS gym, they are leaving and we are waiting.

Peace

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If they are interfering with the game, I do not care what attention they are getting, I am having them removed. I do not have to put up with their crap because they choose to be an azz. And if they are ejected in my state, we have reports for that that the school will have to deal with the state. So I am perfectly in my power to have someone removed. If this fool wants to try it, then we will sit there until that time comes. And then everyone else in the gym knows that behaving that way they could result in the same action. And they probably are not coming back either if they make a big deal. Now when I work in those bigger arenas, then it might not be a different situation, but in a HS gym, they are leaving and we are waiting.

Peace

I absolutely did not mean to say I wouldn't have them removed. Just that I wouldn't hold up the game and wait for it to happen.

I guess it all depends on the situation. We could have an unruly fan that is causing a big enough disturbance that we should hold the game up until he/she leaves, or it could be a situation that isn't so bad that we can't keep the game going.

I responded aggressively because I don't like the idea that other people should suffer because of some moron. I see that situation occur in all sorts of situations in life, and it really bothers me.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by PAlbc

You say both it's the GM's incompetence and that you would tell both coaches you would wait. So if some poor guy getting $30 to be a game manager is actually there it's not your problem, but if there isn't you'll wait. Why couldn't you wait in both cases?

I'm going to ask you point blank. If you are legally not allowed to do anything other than:

"Sir, the ref has asked to have you removed. Please come with me."

"No, F off. Suck my ----" (words the gentleman used last night).

"Fine, I'm calling the police."

Call to police is made, and GM and AD stand there (continuing to ask him to leave) and wait.

The whole point of the ejection is to punish them by not being able to watch the game in question, which they still get to do since they refuse to leave and you restarted play. Stand at the table for 1 minute, they guy will be pressured to leave (most likely by the visiting team coach, and his son who was on the team). Problem solved, unruly fan gone, situation diffused.

So what would you have them do? You say it's incompetence, so what is your solution? Or are you just going to go with the "it's not my problem" route? Your decision caused this problem so you should have some idea how to solve it if you say they are incompetent. It's rather sad if you don't understand (or care) that your decision forces someone else to have to deal with the repercussions.

No, the point of the ejection is to remove a cancer from the gym. I'm not punishing anyone.

The reason I'm not waiting is because waiting is my last resort. If there's GM to handle it, this is their job. My job is what's on the court, and I'm only having the fan removed because he's affecting the job on the court (due to one or more of a variety of behavioral issues). If GM isn't capable of resolving the situation, due to their nonexistence or their incompetence, then sure, I'll hold up the game to help them do their job.

The fact is, I've never seen a GM staff incapable of carrying this out. The fact that this guy sat their waiting for police to arrive tells me he didn't respect the GM at all. I hope he was charged with trespassing when they arrived.

If GM isn't willing or able to back the officials with an unruly fan, you're going to find that it becomes harder and harder to get officials in the long run.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by PAlbc

So what would you have them do? You say it's incompetence, so what is your solution? Or are you just going to go with the "it's not my problem" route? Your decision caused this problem so you should have some idea how to solve it if you say they are incompetent. It's rather sad if you don't understand (or care) that your decision forces someone else to have to deal with the repercussions.

The fact is that it is not my problem. Everybody at the game has a defined role and it doesn't matter if that person is making $30 or $300. My role is to officiate the game. It is the role of game management to handle crowd control. How they do that is up to them. If there is a spectator that needs to be removed, it is game management's responsibility to either remove the individual or call the proper authorities to have said person removed.

I don't expect game management to help me or my partners officiate the game. They should not have any expectation that I will help them do their job either.

Finally, it wasn't the officials actions or decision that forced game management to do their job, it was the unruly fans decisions and actions. Perhaps if game management was more proactive in performing crowd control, then the official would not have had to step in and tell them what needs to be done.

Originally Posted by johnny d

The fact is that it is not my problem. Everybody at the game has a defined role and it doesn't matter if that person is making $30 or $300. My role is to officiate the game. It is the role of game management to handle crowd control. How they do that is up to them. If there is a spectator that needs to be removed, it is game management's responsibility to either remove the individual or call the proper authorities to have said person removed.

I don't expect game management to help me or my partners officiate the game. They should not have any expectation that I will help them do their job either.

Finally, it wasn't the officials actions or decision that forced game management to do their job, it was the unruly fans decisions and actions. Perhaps if game management was more proactive in performing crowd control, then the official would not have had to step in and tell them what needs to be done.

If ejecting a fan would you wait until the fan is removed or resume play? I'm assuming resume play?

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by AremRed

If ejecting a fan would you wait until the fan is removed or resume play? I'm assuming resume play?

It would depend on a number of variables, including but not limited to the reason why the person was asked to leave, and if the person in question was continuing to be a distraction to the game or official while waiting for the proper authority to remove them.

In my first year as an official, I was working a freshman game. During a live ball, an irate lady came charging out of the stands screaming I am going to F***ing kill you. Looked like she was going to steamroll my partner. Instead, she went right past him and onto the visiting team's bench, where she proceeded to beat the daylights out of a player. Turns out, two teammates where beating the hell out of each other on the bench. The kid losing the fight was her son, so she decided to even the odds a little. Needless to say, we had to wait for the police to come in that situation.

[biggravy]

Sometimes the best way to deal with a mouthy fan is to get the ball in play and get back to running up and down the court... They stop being the focal point when the game is playing.

I've only had to toss one fan in recent memory. FC throw in baseline, I was T on a 3 whistle crew. She came out of the stands, beer in hand (in a cup, don't ask how she snuck that in), and started giving me the finger screaming in my ear. If play is disrupted, loud profanity, etc. we are not starting the game until that person is out of sight. It makes it tougher on GM when we start play again. Makes it seem like it isn't that big of a problem, in my opinion. More pressure one the fan to leave when we are all just standing there waiting on them.