Fan Ejection

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by PAlbc

So what would you have them do? You say it's incompetence, so what is your solution? Or are you just going to go with the "it's not my problem" route? Your decision caused this problem so you should have some idea how to solve it if you say they are incompetent. It's rather sad if you don't understand (or care) that your decision forces someone else to have to deal with the repercussions.

The fact is that it is not my problem. Everybody at the game has a defined role and it doesn't matter if that person is making $30 or $300. My role is to officiate the game. It is the role of game management to handle crowd control. How they do that is up to them. If there is a spectator that needs to be removed, it is game management's responsibility to either remove the individual or call the proper authorities to have said person removed.

I don't expect game management to help me or my partners officiate the game. They should not have any expectation that I will help them do their job either.

Finally, it wasn't the officials actions or decision that forced game management to do their job, it was the unruly fans decisions and actions. Perhaps if game management was more proactive in performing crowd control, then the official would not have had to step in and tell them what needs to be done.

Originally Posted by johnny d

The fact is that it is not my problem. Everybody at the game has a defined role and it doesn't matter if that person is making $30 or $300. My role is to officiate the game. It is the role of game management to handle crowd control. How they do that is up to them. If there is a spectator that needs to be removed, it is game management's responsibility to either remove the individual or call the proper authorities to have said person removed.

I don't expect game management to help me or my partners officiate the game. They should not have any expectation that I will help them do their job either.

Finally, it wasn't the officials actions or decision that forced game management to do their job, it was the unruly fans decisions and actions. Perhaps if game management was more proactive in performing crowd control, then the official would not have had to step in and tell them what needs to be done.

If ejecting a fan would you wait until the fan is removed or resume play? I'm assuming resume play?

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by AremRed

If ejecting a fan would you wait until the fan is removed or resume play? I'm assuming resume play?

It would depend on a number of variables, including but not limited to the reason why the person was asked to leave, and if the person in question was continuing to be a distraction to the game or official while waiting for the proper authority to remove them.

In my first year as an official, I was working a freshman game. During a live ball, an irate lady came charging out of the stands screaming I am going to F***ing kill you. Looked like she was going to steamroll my partner. Instead, she went right past him and onto the visiting team's bench, where she proceeded to beat the daylights out of a player. Turns out, two teammates where beating the hell out of each other on the bench. The kid losing the fight was her son, so she decided to even the odds a little. Needless to say, we had to wait for the police to come in that situation.

[biggravy]

Sometimes the best way to deal with a mouthy fan is to get the ball in play and get back to running up and down the court... They stop being the focal point when the game is playing.

I've only had to toss one fan in recent memory. FC throw in baseline, I was T on a 3 whistle crew. She came out of the stands, beer in hand (in a cup, don't ask how she snuck that in), and started giving me the finger screaming in my ear. If play is disrupted, loud profanity, etc. we are not starting the game until that person is out of sight. It makes it tougher on GM when we start play again. Makes it seem like it isn't that big of a problem, in my opinion. More pressure one the fan to leave when we are all just standing there waiting on them.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by PAlbc

So what if this was a middle school game, or other level with no game manager or security? Let the coach deal with it? Even if it's not their fan?

Yes, either the coach or athletic administrator. If it's a visiting fan, and the visiting coach wants to step it up and assist, fine.

"Kids, back to your benches. This game will not continue until this person is removed."

[Eastshire]

If I've asked the GM to remove a fan (rather than just to shut them up), it's because the game cannot continue with them there.

To those who say it's not fair to the innocent fans to have to wait, what about those fans who now cannot see the game because of the people standing in the way trying to remove the unruly fan?

If you resume the game, you're making the GM's job much harder because you are taking away leverage for getting the fan out without force.

It's also very surprising that a varsity basketball game doesn't have at lease one officer there on duty in the first place.

[Remington]

Here is the rule and I actually really like how it is worded and basically asks you not to use it. I did see a T called in a district tournament when a father of a player was using the F word and and standing trying to intimidate an official (after refusing to be removed by the game administration). It was amazing how fast the man's son got his butt out the door when the T was called. It is rare, but it definitely can happen........ Just for fun, here's the rule:


2.8.1 SITUATION:

What guidelines should be exercised by the officials when spectators' actions are such that they interfere with the administration of the game?

RULING: The rules book states "the official may rule fouls on either team if its *supporters act in such a way as to interfere with the proper conduct of the game." It is significant to note the word used is "may." This gives permission, but does not in any way imply that officials must call technical fouls on team followers or supporters for unsporting acts. Thus, while officials do have the authority to penalize a team whose spectators interfere with the proper conduct of the game, this authority must be used with extreme caution and discretion. While the authority is there, the official must rarely use it, because experience has demonstrated that calling hasty technical fouls on the crowd rarely solves the problem and may, in fact, result in penalizing the wrong team because the official may not have proper knowledge as to which team's supporters were responsible for the unsporting act.

COMMENT: Responsibility for the behavior of spectators is that of home or game management. The rules book stipulates that insofar as the management can reasonably be expected to control the spectators, it is its responsibility to do so. Home management has the responsibility of providing a site where the game can proceed in a sporting manner. If the conduct of spectators prohibits the orderly continuance of a game, the officials should have a representative of game management take whatever action is necessary. This may require the removal of a team follower(s). This can be done without charging the supporters' team with a technical foul. The advised procedure is for the official to notify game management as to which follower(s) must be removed from the site. The officials may stop the game until host management resolves the situation. Another problem arises when team supporters throw debris, paper, coins, ice or other items on the floor. If the official has positive knowledge as to which supporter(s) threw the items, the official should instruct game management to have the supporter(s) removed from the site. As in the previous case, this can be done without charging the supporters' team with a technical foul. If the official does not have positive knowledge, the official should instruct game management to make a public address announcement stating that the next time debris is thrown on the floor, it will result in a technical foul charged to that supporters' team and will also result in the supporter(s) being removed from the facility. If after the announcement, the situation is not brought under control, the officials may also stop the game until host management resolves the situation. In most situations, after an announcement has been made, game management is very aware of the problem and will usually have positive knowledge as to which supporter(s) threw the items on the floor. If the disruption is not brought under control and the contest cannot safely continue, rather than assess several technical fouls, officials are advised to suspend the game.

[Rooster]

Originally Posted by Tio

If they won't stop or the abuse becomes vulgar or personal in nature, the first thing I would do is have him moved to another seat. If he is going to not behave in the front row, moving to the back of the gym is a good way to get him out of sight (and hearing distance). This might be a nice compromise.

This not being the same as a kindergarten classroom, I think this would be a very bad idea. (All you're going to do is humiliate him more than if he were removed by GM. Just think about how he'll behave then...) You've got NO authority to move him to another seat. Either he goes or stays but at that point he's GM's (and maybe the police's) problem.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Rooster

This not being the same as a kindergarten classroom, I think this would be a very bad idea. (All you're going to do is humiliate him more than if he were removed by GM. Just think about how he'll behave then...) You've got NO authority to move him to another seat. Either he goes or stays but at that point he's GM's (and maybe the police's) problem.

If it's borderline behavior, I'll just have GM address it. I won't pay attention to how they address it, and it may be something as simple as a quick chat or just sitting in that area for a while.

If the behavior is bad enough that I'm having to ask GM to remove someone, then moving him to another seat is not acceptable. If I find out that's all that was done, I'll include all the information in my report to my assigner and the state.

[Mark Padgett]

Many years ago (I have to take my shoes off to count how many) I was working a game for our local rec league. I think it was 8th grade boys. One of the dads just wouldn't quit yelling at me and my partner. At one break, I told him to knock it off or else he would have to leave the premises, and if he didn't do that, I would call the game off and make sure everyone knew it was because of him.

He yelled at me again and said he was going to "report" me to the league's head of officials. I just smiled and replied, "Uh, that would be me." He then said he was going to "report" me to the President of the league. I smiled again and said, "Uh, that would also be me. Anyone else you want to talk to?"

He left.

[Rich1]

If game administration gets right on the situation I will go on with game while they remove fan. If game administration does not act or it becomes disruptive, game stops until fan is gone. Have never had to eject a fan though.

I rarely speak to fans during "real" games but in summer ball or my local youth league (where sometimes we are also the de facto administrators) I have both addressed problems and conversed casually as the situation allowed but do strongly feel that we should avoid interacting with fans at sanctioned games in order to remain/appear impartial.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

He yelled at me again and said he was going to "report" me to the league's head of officials. I just smiled and replied, "Uh, that would be me." He then said he was going to "report" me to the President of the league. I smiled again and said, "Uh, that would also be me. Anyone else you want to talk to?"