Fan Ejection

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Ever? Not even a fan stepping on the floor or throwing things?

Okay, I'm sure there are extreme cases when a tech is deserved, but I was thinking more along the lines of what happened in the the OP. Meaning the problem(s) didn't spill onto the court and disturb the game itself.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

Okay, I'm sure there are extreme cases when a tech is deserved, but I was thinking more along the lines of what happened in the the OP. Meaning the problem(s) didn't spill onto the court and disturb the game itself.

I agree. And I suspect none of this nonsense would have occurred had the officials not been trying to be Mr. Congeniality with the fans in the first place.

[PAlbc]

So what if this was a middle school game, or other level with no game manager or security? Let the coach deal with it? Even if it's not their fan?

Would you hold up the game then?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I agree. And I suspect none of this nonsense would have occurred had the officials not been trying to be Mr. Congeniality with the fans in the first place.

I've joked with a fan or two in the past. I'm there to do a good job, but I'm going to have some fun while I'm there.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by PAlbc

So what if this was a middle school game, or other level with no game manager or security? Let the coach deal with it? Even if it's not their fan?

Would you hold up the game then?

If you know for which team the fan is rooting, then have that coach deal with it.

[PAlbc]

But that would again require holding up the game if you are asking the coach to cross the court and take care of it, right?

[BatteryPowered]

I have interacted with fans...but only a few words. I have had them ask how I was doing, just say "Fine". Had one at the start of the 4th quarter of a blow-out say "Real barn burner tonight isn't it?", I just smiled and said "It is what it is."

Now I never have extended conversations, but I am not going to be rude when it is obvious thet are just being polite.

[Adam]

If I've asked game management to remove a fan, I'm not going to expect to have to look over their shoulders while they do it. I'm doing it because he's a distraction, and slowing the game down for him is only feeding the troll. If GM can't get rid of a fan, that's a reflection of their own competence, IMO.

All the stuff about the crew not acting professional is valid, but completely unrelated to whether GM should have been able to remove the fan without the referee getting involved beyond the initial request.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by PAlbc

So what if this was a middle school game, or other level with no game manager or security? Let the coach deal with it? Even if it's not their fan?

Would you hold up the game then?

Every site I've been to has someone in charge. MS games, it may well be the home school's coach. Normally there's an AD or a Principal or someone, but not always. If not, it falls to the home coach (not a good situation for a variety of reasons). If it's a summer game, there's normally a tournament or league representative nearby to handle it if necessary, but if not it gets a bit tricky.

If the fan is so unruly that you can't continue the game with him present, you simply stop the game and inform both coaches that you won't be continuing the game until that fan has left the confines.

[PAlbc]

You say both it's the GM's incompetence and that you would tell both coaches you would wait. So if some poor guy getting $30 to be a game manager is actually there it's not your problem, but if there isn't you'll wait. Why couldn't you wait in both cases?

I'm going to ask you point blank. If you are legally not allowed to do anything other than:

"Sir, the ref has asked to have you removed. Please come with me."

"No, F off. Suck my ----" (words the gentleman used last night).

"Fine, I'm calling the police."

Call to police is made, and GM and AD stand there (continuing to ask him to leave) and wait.

The whole point of the ejection is to punish them by not being able to watch the game in question, which they still get to do since they refuse to leave and you restarted play. Stand at the table for 1 minute, they guy will be pressured to leave (most likely by the visiting team coach, and his son who was on the team). Problem solved, unruly fan gone, situation diffused.

So what would you have them do? You say it's incompetence, so what is your solution? Or are you just going to go with the "it's not my problem" route? Your decision caused this problem so you should have some idea how to solve it if you say they are incompetent. It's rather sad if you don't understand (or care) that your decision forces someone else to have to deal with the repercussions.

I don't think common sense officiating would call for a technical foul in any situation where you have to eject a fan. If a fan is being a problem and needs to be addressed notify game management and continue the game. If the fan needs to leave notify game management and do not restart the game until the fan leaves. Peer pressure will force him out eventually.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by PAlbc

You say both it's the GM's incompetence and that you would tell both coaches you would wait. So if some poor guy getting $30 to be a game manager is actually there it's not your problem, but if there isn't you'll wait. Why couldn't you wait in both cases?

I'm going to ask you point blank. If you are legally not allowed to do anything other than:

"Sir, the ref has asked to have you removed. Please come with me."

"No, F off. Suck my ----" (words the gentleman used last night).

"Fine, I'm calling the police."

Call to police is made, and GM and AD stand there (continuing to ask him to leave) and wait.

The whole point of the ejection is to punish them by not being able to watch the game in question, which they still get to do since they refuse to leave and you restarted play. Stand at the table for 1 minute, they guy will be pressured to leave (most likely by the visiting team coach, and his son who was on the team). Problem solved, unruly fan gone, situation diffused.

So what would you have them do? You say it's incompetence, so what is your solution? Or are you just going to go with the "it's not my problem" route? Your decision caused this problem so you should have some idea how to solve it if you say they are incompetent. It's rather sad if you don't understand (or care) that your decision forces someone else to have to deal with the repercussions.

A lot of people act up in order to get attention, and by holding up the game you're giving them exactly what they want. And even if they don't care about attention, you're still making the other fans, players, coaches, and staff wait around because of that fool. Essentially, everybody has to pay for his/her crimes. How is that a better way to handle things?

Unless that fan is doing something that keeps me from being able to continue the game, such as running around the court, I'm not holding it up. To be frank, the game isn't about the fans... it's about the players. And I'll be damned if I'm going to make those players, and every other "innocent" person, suffer in any way because of one that a-hole.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

A lot of people act up in order to get attention, and by holding up the game you're giving them exactly what they want. And even if they don't care about attention, you're still making the other fans, players, coaches, and staff wait around because of that fool. Essentially, everybody has to pay for his/her crimes. How is that a better way to handle things?

Unless that fan is doing something that keeps me from being able to continue the game, such as running around the court, I'm not holding it up. To be frank, the game isn't about the fans... it's about the players. And I'll be damned if I'm going to make those players, and every other "innocent" person, suffer in any way because of one that a-hole.

If they are interfering with the game, I do not care what attention they are getting, I am having them removed. I do not have to put up with their crap because they choose to be an azz. And if they are ejected in my state, we have reports for that that the school will have to deal with the state. So I am perfectly in my power to have someone removed. If this fool wants to try it, then we will sit there until that time comes. And then everyone else in the gym knows that behaving that way they could result in the same action. And they probably are not coming back either if they make a big deal. Now when I work in those bigger arenas, then it might not be a different situation, but in a HS gym, they are leaving and we are waiting.

Peace

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If they are interfering with the game, I do not care what attention they are getting, I am having them removed. I do not have to put up with their crap because they choose to be an azz. And if they are ejected in my state, we have reports for that that the school will have to deal with the state. So I am perfectly in my power to have someone removed. If this fool wants to try it, then we will sit there until that time comes. And then everyone else in the gym knows that behaving that way they could result in the same action. And they probably are not coming back either if they make a big deal. Now when I work in those bigger arenas, then it might not be a different situation, but in a HS gym, they are leaving and we are waiting.

Peace

I absolutely did not mean to say I wouldn't have them removed. Just that I wouldn't hold up the game and wait for it to happen.

I guess it all depends on the situation. We could have an unruly fan that is causing a big enough disturbance that we should hold the game up until he/she leaves, or it could be a situation that isn't so bad that we can't keep the game going.

I responded aggressively because I don't like the idea that other people should suffer because of some moron. I see that situation occur in all sorts of situations in life, and it really bothers me.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by PAlbc

You say both it's the GM's incompetence and that you would tell both coaches you would wait. So if some poor guy getting $30 to be a game manager is actually there it's not your problem, but if there isn't you'll wait. Why couldn't you wait in both cases?

I'm going to ask you point blank. If you are legally not allowed to do anything other than:

"Sir, the ref has asked to have you removed. Please come with me."

"No, F off. Suck my ----" (words the gentleman used last night).

"Fine, I'm calling the police."

Call to police is made, and GM and AD stand there (continuing to ask him to leave) and wait.

The whole point of the ejection is to punish them by not being able to watch the game in question, which they still get to do since they refuse to leave and you restarted play. Stand at the table for 1 minute, they guy will be pressured to leave (most likely by the visiting team coach, and his son who was on the team). Problem solved, unruly fan gone, situation diffused.

So what would you have them do? You say it's incompetence, so what is your solution? Or are you just going to go with the "it's not my problem" route? Your decision caused this problem so you should have some idea how to solve it if you say they are incompetent. It's rather sad if you don't understand (or care) that your decision forces someone else to have to deal with the repercussions.

No, the point of the ejection is to remove a cancer from the gym. I'm not punishing anyone.

The reason I'm not waiting is because waiting is my last resort. If there's GM to handle it, this is their job. My job is what's on the court, and I'm only having the fan removed because he's affecting the job on the court (due to one or more of a variety of behavioral issues). If GM isn't capable of resolving the situation, due to their nonexistence or their incompetence, then sure, I'll hold up the game to help them do their job.

The fact is, I've never seen a GM staff incapable of carrying this out. The fact that this guy sat their waiting for police to arrive tells me he didn't respect the GM at all. I hope he was charged with trespassing when they arrived.

If GM isn't willing or able to back the officials with an unruly fan, you're going to find that it becomes harder and harder to get officials in the long run.