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Old Fri Nov 28, 2014, 07:04pm
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charge question

Sorry I don't have the video. I was watching a bit of the Pacific v Alaska game(it was in Alaska and there was a bit of hometown cooking by the refs)

A Pacific player drove. Two Alaska players were there and the Pacific player went between them. The ref called a charge even though it looked like a block or a no call.
Just assuming the two defenders had LGP, and the offensive player goes for the space between them, about a foot or two. How much contact does there have to be to call a charge? So let's say the offensive player hits their arms that are sticking out a bit. Could that be a charge?
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Old Fri Nov 28, 2014, 07:26pm
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Old Fri Nov 28, 2014, 08:04pm
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I quit reading at "Pacific v Alaska."
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Old Fri Nov 28, 2014, 09:06pm
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I quit reading at "Sorry I don't have the video".
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Old Fri Nov 28, 2014, 09:11pm
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The moral of the story, mutantducky, is that you're unlikely to get the answers you want by coming on an officiating message board and making accusations of "hometown cooking."
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Old Fri Nov 28, 2014, 09:36pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mutantducky View Post
Just assuming the two defenders had LGP, and the offensive player goes for the space between them, about a foot or two. How much contact does there have to be to call a charge?
The same amount as on any other play where the offense initiates contact with a legally established defender.
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Old Fri Nov 28, 2014, 10:11pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
The moral of the story, mutantducky, is that you're unlikely to get the answers you want by coming on an officiating message board and making accusations of "hometown cooking."
Especially considering that most of the officials used in the Shootout are usually not from Alaska.
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Old Sat Nov 29, 2014, 01:22am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official View Post
The moral of the story, mutantducky, is that you're unlikely to get the answers you want by coming on an officiating message board and making accusations of "hometown cooking."
There it is. To do so is akin to accusing an officiating crew of being corrupt.
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Old Sat Nov 29, 2014, 02:56am
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Realizing that the discussion is in regards to an NCAA ruling, the following is for those who are concerned with NFHS game situations:

NFHS Rules Book 4-7-2 c. . . .There must be reasonable space between two defensive players or a defensive player and a boundary line to allow the dribbler to continue in his/her path. If there is less than 3 feet of space, the dribbler has the greater responsibility for the contact.
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Old Sat Nov 29, 2014, 11:41am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob1968 View Post
Realizing that the discussion is in regards to an NCAA ruling, the following is for those who are concerned with NFHS game situations:

NFHS Rules Book 4-7-2 c. . . .There must be reasonable space between two defensive players or a defensive player and a boundary line to allow the dribbler to continue in his/her path. If there is less than 3 feet of space, the dribbler has the greater responsibility for the contact.
You beat me to it Rob......

Anyone know if NCAA has a similar rule?
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Old Sat Nov 29, 2014, 01:04pm
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ncaa 10-1-9

Quote:
a dribbler shall neither charge into nor contact an opponent in the dribbler’s path nor attempt to dribble between two opponents or between an opponent and a boundary, unless the space is sufficient to provide a reasonable chance for the dribbler to pass through without contact.
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Old Sat Nov 29, 2014, 05:35pm
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well I seriously hope you people are not stupid enough to believe that refs can't be influenced. Maybe they aren't intentionally doing it but they are nonetheless.
just because this is an officials forum doesn't mean we have to treat refs as sacrosanct. I think there has been some very poor officiating that is robbing the players and the fans of good games. I've been to two college games this year and also seen a few on tv and while some of it has been good, I've found there has been downright awful officiating going on. Maybe this is because of the rule changes, I don't know. But it damaging to the game to make it a free throw contest with teams going into bonus with 10+ minutes to go.
Too many refs are calling fouls with minimal amount of contact that was absolutely nothing to do with the play. It can be let go. Some of them seem to be first in a contest to blow the whistle rather than letting the play develop. Just bizarre ticky tack fouls being called, some away from the ball. one when the ref anticipated the foul but it turned out the player didn't foul the offensive player. He was wrong. It happens. The player was upset and everyone knew it was a mistake. The video showed there wasn't contact. How about just admitting you made an inadvertent whistle and let it go?
I'll respect the game, the players and the fans. What I won't do is abide (fully) by the new rule changes. It is not helping the game at all when refs are having too much of an influence on how the game is being played. I saw a play when the offensive player grabbed the ball near half court, he did a quick turn with the defender for a tenth of second had his hand on the player. Hand check called. It had no impact at all on the play. Just let it go. If you are calling the games very strict and by the book without letting some minor fouls go you are doing a disservice to the game. The rules seem all about this asinine ego trip to make the refs a larger part of the game than they should be.
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Old Sat Nov 29, 2014, 05:38pm
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I like that NCAA rule. It is a bit harder to tell when the defenders have their arms spread out a bit. I think there was a good amount of space and the offensive player had his head and much of his body past the defenders but there was some contact so the ref called a charge.
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Old Sat Nov 29, 2014, 05:56pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mutantducky View Post
well I seriously hope you people are not stupid enough to believe that refs can't be influenced. Maybe they aren't intentionally doing it but they are nonetheless.
just because this is an officials forum doesn't mean we have to treat refs as sacrosanct. I think there has been some very poor officiating that is robbing the players and the fans of good games. I've been to two college games this year and also seen a few on tv and while some of it has been good, I've found there has been downright awful officiating going on. Maybe this is because of the rule changes, I don't know. But it damaging to the game to make it a free throw contest with teams going into bonus with 10+ minutes to go.
Too many refs are calling fouls with minimal amount of contact that was absolutely nothing to do with the play. It can be let go. Some of them seem to be first in a contest to blow the whistle rather than letting the play develop. Just bizarre ticky tack fouls being called, some away from the ball. one when the ref anticipated the foul but it turned out the player didn't foul the offensive player. He was wrong. It happens. The player was upset and everyone knew it was a mistake. The video showed there wasn't contact. How about just admitting you made an inadvertent whistle and let it go?
I'll respect the game, the players and the fans. What I won't do is abide (fully) by the new rule changes. It is not helping the game at all when refs are having too much of an influence on how the game is being played. I saw a play when the offensive player grabbed the ball near half court, he did a quick turn with the defender for a tenth of second had his hand on the player. Hand check called. It had no impact at all on the play. Just let it go. If you are calling the games very strict and by the book without letting some minor fouls go you are doing a disservice to the game. The rules seem all about this asinine ego trip to make the refs a larger part of the game than they should be.
I hope you're not stupid enough to believe that we care what you think about us or our task as officials. I also hope you're not stupid enough to believe that "hometown cooking" exists just because fouls are called against the visiting team.

So your contention is that officials shouldn't call fouls by the rules because of too many free throws being shot? Heard that one before.

The amount of contact has nothing to do with a foul. See Rule 10-1-4 (NCAA) and 10-6-12 (NFHS) for fouls that are automatic. You can have violent contact that is incidental and slight contact that causes a disadvantage.

The term "ticky tack" implies that you shouldn't call a foul even if the rules say it should be called.

Reviewing every judgment call would result in endless games. Mistakes happen by players, coaches, and officials and they're part of the game. Should we have "do-overs" every time a player commits a dumb turnover or every time a coach calls a dumb play?

We have a job to call the game by the rules prescribed to us.

Actually, quite the contrary. We are doing a disservice to the game when we don't call the game as we are instructed to. The hand-checking rules were made to eliminate inconsistency by officials and to clean up the game. Without the new rules, you would be complaining about how inconsistent we are. You're kidding yourself and making yourself a laughingstock if you think the new rules were created because of our egos.

Last edited by SC Official; Sat Nov 29, 2014 at 06:02pm.
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Sat Nov 29, 2014, 06:11pm
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Post Shooting the messenger

Quote:
Originally Posted by mutantducky View Post
well I seriously hope you people are not stupid enough to believe that refs can't be influenced. Maybe they aren't intentionally doing it but they are nonetheless.
just because this is an officials forum doesn't mean we have to treat refs as sacrosanct. I think there has been some very poor officiating that is robbing the players and the fans of good games. I've been to two college games this year and also seen a few on tv and while some of it has been good, I've found there has been downright awful officiating going on. Maybe this is because of the rule changes, I don't know. But it damaging to the game to make it a free throw contest with teams going into bonus with 10+ minutes to go.
Too many refs are calling fouls with minimal amount of contact that was absolutely nothing to do with the play. It can be let go. Some of them seem to be first in a contest to blow the whistle rather than letting the play develop. Just bizarre ticky tack fouls being called, some away from the ball. one when the ref anticipated the foul but it turned out the player didn't foul the offensive player. He was wrong. It happens. The player was upset and everyone knew it was a mistake. The video showed there wasn't contact. How about just admitting you made an inadvertent whistle and let it go?
I'll respect the game, the players and the fans. What I won't do is abide (fully) by the new rule changes. It is not helping the game at all when refs are having too much of an influence on how the game is being played. I saw a play when the offensive player grabbed the ball near half court, he did a quick turn with the defender for a tenth of second had his hand on the player. Hand check called. It had no impact at all on the play. Just let it go. If you are calling the games very strict and by the book without letting some minor fouls go you are doing a disservice to the game. The rules seem all about this asinine ego trip to make the refs a larger part of the game than they should be.
I am trying to understand the logic here. Are you saying that officials, who are paid to enforce the rules, shouldn't enforce the rules and players, who should abide by the rules, shouldn't adjust their game to follow the rules because...well...I am not sure why you are saying they shouldn't have to follow the rules.
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