The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 11, 2011, 02:07pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 6
Charge/Block question

This afternoon I had a disagreement with a colleague at lunch. We were debating if what Shaq does posting up is a charge, block, or no call. My colleague said that when Shaq pushes people back with his butt that is a charge. I disagreed. It seems he wants Shaq punished for having a clear weight advantage and able to use some it to get position or post up. Is what Shaq does with his caboose any different then a smaller forward pushing back with his back?

Bottom line to what I am asking- When Shaq pushes people back with his butt is that a charge? The defender is behind him and not in front.

Thoughts? I bolded a part I thought was relevant that would make it seem like it was not a charge.

This is from NBA.com.-A block/charge foul occurs when a defender tries to get in front of his man to stop him from going in that direction. If he does not get into a legal defensive position and contact occurs, it is a blocking foul. If he gets to a legal position and the offensive player runs into him it is an offensive foul. In both situations, if the contact is minimal, no foul may be called. To get into a legal position defending against the dribbler, the defender just needs to get in front of him. On a drive to the basket, the defender must get to his position before the shooter starts his upward shooting motion. For most other cases, the defender must get into position and allow enough distance for the offensive player to stop and/or change direction.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 11, 2011, 02:10pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
Most here don't work the NBA, so the way it's called there might not match the answers you get here.

That said, if the defender has a legal position, it's a foul for another player to push / force the defender out of that position (displacement).

Now, if the offensive player "makes contact" and the defnesive player voluntarily "gives ground," that's a legal play.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 11, 2011, 02:23pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
Quote:
Originally Posted by UCFGUY06 View Post

Bottom line to what I am asking- When Shaq pushes people back with his butt is that a charge? The defender is behind him and not in front.
Front refers to the direction he is going, and is not related to any part of the body.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 11, 2011, 02:44pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 6
I am writing as a curious fan, who created quite a debate in the lunch room today.

Just seems to be you can't call a charging foul on a man who at times has a 100 pound advantage and is posting up. If the defender is behind him and is getting manhandled, how do you call an offensive foul?
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 11, 2011, 02:49pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,273
Quote:
Originally Posted by UCFGUY06 View Post
I am writing as a curious fan, who created quite a debate in the lunch room today.

Just seems to be you can't call a charging foul on a man who at times has a 100 pound advantage and is posting up. If the defender is behind him and is getting manhandled, how do you call an offensive foul?
Easy. The defender (or any player for that matter) is entitled to their current spot on the floor when it has been legally obtained. If the offensive player makes contact that displaces them from their legally obtained position, that's an offensive (player control or team control) foul by rule.
__________________
Meddle not in the affairs of dragons - for thou art crunchy and taste good with ketchup!
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 11, 2011, 02:50pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by UCFGUY06 View Post
I am writing as a curious fan, who created quite a debate in the lunch room today.

Just seems to be you can't call a charging foul on a man who at times has a 100 pound advantage and is posting up. If the defender is behind him and is getting manhandled, how do you call an offensive foul?
By blowing the whistle and pointing the other way.

Size doesn't mean the rules don't apply to him.

You're dangerously close to going from writing as "a curious fan" to writing as a "fan-boy." The former is welcomed; the latter, not so much.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 11, 2011, 03:01pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 6
But how is dribbling towards the basket, back turned, a foul? At what point does the offensive player then no longer have the right to make an attempt to the basket.

Are you then saying once a defender is covering a man, all attempts to move towards the hoop are a charge? If a guy like Shaq or Dwight Howard dribble with their butt first how is that different then Kobe going straight on?

Seems to me there is no standard nor is there set way.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 11, 2011, 03:10pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 18,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by UCFGUY06 View Post
But how is dribbling towards the basket, back turned, a foul? At what point does the offensive player then no longer have the right to make an attempt to the basket.

Are you then saying once a defender is covering a man, all attempts to move towards the hoop are a charge? If a guy like Shaq or Dwight Howard dribble with their butt first how is that different then Kobe going straight on?

Seems to me there is no standard nor is there set way.
If the defender has a legal position, then the offensive player cannot displace the defender. That's true whether the offiensive player is facing the basket or "backing down" the defender. The offensive player must stop or go around.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 11, 2011, 03:11pm
CLH CLH is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 293
Send a message via AIM to CLH Send a message via Yahoo to CLH
Quote:
Originally Posted by UCFGUY06 View Post
But how is dribbling towards the basket, back turned, a foul? At what point does the offensive player then no longer have the right to make an attempt to the basket.

Are you then saying once a defender is covering a man, all attempts to move towards the hoop are a charge? If a guy like Shaq or Dwight Howard dribble with their butt first how is that different then Kobe going straight on?

Seems to me there is no standard nor is there set way.
Illegal contact is illegal contact. If the defender has established himself in the path of the dribbler or is in his legally acquired posted up position, if the offensive player dislodges him or the contact is illegal a foul has occured. It does not matter when the contact is with his back, shoulder, butt, arm, ear or nose, illegal contact is illegal contact and is a foul.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 11, 2011, 03:12pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: St. Louis, Missouri
Posts: 822
Think of it this way. You drive a small and you are stopped at a stop light. There is a car in front of you. A real BIG car. All cars are not moving. The car in front of you decides to put the car in reverse and smashes into you. Who is at fault?
Now return to your regular scheduled program.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 11, 2011, 03:12pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
Forget front and back. It's all about the path of the player. If the defender establishes himself in that path and is run over, the foul is on the offense.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove

Last edited by just another ref; Tue Jan 11, 2011 at 03:14pm.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 11, 2011, 03:12pm
In Memoriam
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hell
Posts: 20,211
Quote:
Originally Posted by UCFGUY06 View Post
Seems to me there is no standard nor is there set way.
There is a standard and set way under high school, college and international rules. The NBA? Not so much.

I've been involved with basketball officiating for over 50 years and I don't have a clue what a "foul' is in the NBA.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 11, 2011, 03:17pm
Aleve Titles to Others
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: East Westchester of the Southern Conference
Posts: 5,381
Send a message via AIM to 26 Year Gap
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee View Post
There is a standard and set way under high school, college and international rules. The NBA? Not so much.

I've been involved with basketball officiating for over 50 years and I don't have a clue what a "foul' is in the NBA.
Isn't that when a non-star player impedes a star player in any way, legally or illegally?
__________________
Never hit a piņata if you see hornets flying out of it.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 11, 2011, 03:21pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,190
Quote:
Originally Posted by UCFGUY06 View Post
I am writing as a curious fan, who created quite a debate in the lunch room today.

Just seems to be you can't call a charging foul on a man who at times has a 100 pound advantage and is posting up. If the defender is behind him and is getting manhandled, how do you call an offensive foul?
Because "manhandling" isn't legal. How far do you think it's ok to push? I can tell you I would call a lot of those "moves" fouls if they happened in my high school games.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 11, 2011, 03:22pm
APG APG is offline
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,889
I don't really understand the question?

If a defender gets a legal position and an offensive player causes displacement, there can only be a charge or no call. When the rules say get in front of the defender, they don't mean one has to go face to face. They mean get in front of the offensive player's path.
__________________
Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions.

Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Block Charge Question sseltser Basketball 37 Wed Oct 24, 2007 04:49pm
another charge vs. block question refwannabe Basketball 2 Mon Mar 07, 2005 10:36pm
Block Charge Rules Question DownTownTonyBrown Basketball 4 Thu Jan 27, 2005 10:37am
Quick Charge/Block Question BBallinRick Basketball 11 Wed May 19, 2004 12:21pm
Block-Charge (Philosophy Question) footlocker Basketball 23 Sat Feb 21, 2004 11:08pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:49am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1