Cleveland Cavaliers refuses to respect the National Anthem

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I think it is a silly thing to constantly do at every contest. I get it if we are doing a special event or something to honor troops, but every game to me does not need this display. Not everyone is from this country at games. Not everyone feels the same way. And if we cannot honor the other things surround the country properly like the flag on the field, when to stand at attention when the flag is being walked by an area or other things that show people in this country that claim to be so offended, never do or practice. And I am saying this knowing damn well my father is buried in a Veteran Cemetery for his service in Korea and he always honored the flag as a Veteran when I grew up. I even attended a Military Academy for a year and I learned a lot of things we are supposed to do, we do not even do. I agree, a lot of people do not care.

Peace

Silly? There are 168 hours each week. Four minutes is silly? This veteran, son of a three-time wounded WWII veteran, who passed away one month ago today, is of a differing opinion.
I have, several times, accepted the opportunity to sing the National Anthem at basketball games, and have exulted in the feelings that great song evokes in most of the attendees.
And yes, my father and I both gladly served to preserve and protect every person's right/privelege to differ in their opinions of such matters.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

Silly? There are 168 hours each week. Four minutes is silly? This veteran, son of a three-time wounded WWII veteran, who passed away one month ago today, is of a differing opinion.
I have, several times, accepted the opportunity to sing the National Anthem at basketball games, and have exulted in the feelings that great song evokes in most of the attendees.
And yes, my father and I both gladly served to preserve and protect every person's right/privelege to differ in their opinions of such matters.

Then why don't people do all the other things that honor the flag or follow protocol? If you do not know those things, then yes it is silly.

There is nothing special about the National Anthem for a sporting contest. We only started this practice in the last 50 years or so. And it was not done at every sporting event until probably the last 30 years.

Again, it is after all my opinion.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

There is nothing special about the National Anthem for a sporting contest. We only started this practice in the last 50 years or so. And it was not done at every sporting event until probably the last 30 years. Again, it is after all my opinion.

I'm glad that it's only an opinion because I would hate to think that one could confuse it with some facts.

This "practice" started about seventy years ago, not fifty years ago.

From Wikepedia:

In 1916, President Woodrow Wilson ordered that "The Star-Spangled Banner" be played at military and other appropriate occasions. The playing of the song two years later during the seventh-inning stretch of the 1918 World Series, and thereafter during each game of the series is often cited as the first instance that the anthem was played at a baseball game, though evidence shows that the "Star-Spangled Banner" was performed as early as 1897 at opening day ceremonies in Philadelphia and then more regularly at the Polo Grounds in New York City beginning in 1898. In any case, the tradition of performing the national anthem before every baseball game began in World War II.

I graduated from high school forty-three years ago (not thirty years ago) and The Star Spangled Banner was played before every single basketball game, both home, and away.

Of course, I'm sure that things were considerably different in Chicagoland back then.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I'm glad that it's only an opinion because I would hate to think that one could confuse it with some facts.

This "practice" started about seventy years ago, not fifty years ago.

From Wikepedia:

In 1916, President Woodrow Wilson ordered that "The Star-Spangled Banner" be played at military and other appropriate occasions. The playing of the song two years later during the seventh-inning stretch of the 1918 World Series, and thereafter during each game of the series is often cited as the first instance that the anthem was played at a baseball game, though evidence shows that the "Star-Spangled Banner" was performed as early as 1897 at opening day ceremonies in Philadelphia and then more regularly at the Polo Grounds in New York City beginning in 1898. In any case, the tradition of performing the national anthem before every baseball game began in World War II.

I graduated from high school forty-three years ago (not thirty years ago) and The Star Spangled Banner was played before every single basketball game, both home, and away.

Of course, I'm sure that things were considerably different in Chicagoland back then.

I did not grow up in Chicagoland. So if you want to talk about facts, at least get that one right. I have stated that several times and also not the only place I work sports. We have a bigger state than where you live.

Secondly the practice started at that time, but it was not customary until relatively recently. There were not the NA in every sport before every game. There were even places that never did this until in the last 40 years or so.

And I really hope you are doing more than looking this up on Wikepedia as your only source. I graduated from HS in the early 1990s, it was not done every game and many times it was not done at all.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

We have a bigger state than where you live ... I graduated from HS in the early 1990s, it was not done every game and many times it was not done at all.

I guess that we have more music lovers here in my little state than in your big state.

http://briancain.com/blog/the-histor...ing-games.html

http://tampabay.rays.mlb.com/tb/hist...nal_anthem.jsp

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I guess that we have more music lovers here in my little state than in your big state.

The History of the National Anthem at Sporting Games | Brian Cain

Baseball's National Anthem | raysbaseball.com: History

You miss the entire point.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You miss the entire point.

I fully "get" your opinion. It's your facts that I have a problem with. If you had simply expressed an opinion, then I would have probably not decided to participate in this thread.

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Then why don't people do all the other things that honor the flag or follow protocol? If you do not know those things, then yes it is silly.

There is nothing special about the National Anthem for a sporting contest. We only started this practice in the last 50 years or so. And it was not done at every sporting event until probably the last 30 years.

Again, it is after all my opinion.

Peace

You'd have to ask those people . . .

Although you may see nothing special about the Nat'l Anthem for a sporting event, it is special, in and of itself. Having spent time in other countries, where the citizens have so few rights, and even less hope, the Nat'l Anthem is very special to me.
Perhaps those US citizens who discount the flag, in regards to scripted protocol have not been instructed. Perhaps they take all that we have in this great country for granted. Perhaps a few minutes of reverence for the flag, and our Nat'l Anthem would do them some good, in regards to their gratitude for this great country and all it affords us.
I hope you have had a peaceful Veterans' Day.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

You'd have to ask those people . . .

Although you may see nothing special about the Nat'l Anthem for a sporting event, it is special, in and of itself. Having spent time in other countries, where the citizens have so few rights, and even less hope, the Nat'l Anthem is very special to me.
Perhaps those US citizens who discount the flag, in regards to scripted protocol have not been instructed. Perhaps they take all that we have in this great country for granted. Perhaps a few minutes of reverence for the flag, and our Nat'l Anthem would do them some good, in regards to their gratitude for this great country and all it affords us.
I hope you have had a peaceful Veterans' Day.

You can be upset with me about my point of view, but many people feel the same way by how they act during the National Anthem. It really only took on this special meaning after 9/11. There were many people that acted like it was a hassle based on their body language and it was not always practiced. I even remember early in my career where it was hit and miss who would even do the Anthem. There are better ways to show gratitude IMO than doing the Anthem. My dad was the Commander of a local VFW, I saw first hand real giving to those that did things for this country. And most that get so upset if you even take a position on a certain side of this, never do anything truly that will help veterans that shows real gratitude.

BTW, I had a great day. Thank you for asking.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

National Anthem ... It really only took on this special meaning after 9/11.

I may agree with you if you were discussing God Bless America (seventh inning stretch), but The Star Spangled Banner has had a special meaning for a lot longer than thirteen years.



Also, for the record, I've been officiating for thirty-four years here in Connecticut, and The Star Spangled Banner has been played before 95% of the varsity games that I have officiated, or observed, over that period of time. That's a fact. I also understand that things may have been different where you grew up.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

Silly? There are 168 hours each week. Four minutes is silly? This veteran, son of a three-time wounded WWII veteran, who passed away one month ago today, is of a differing opinion.
I have, several times, accepted the opportunity to sing the National Anthem at basketball games, and have exulted in the feelings that great song evokes in most of the attendees.
And yes, my father and I both gladly served to preserve and protect every person's right/privelege to differ in their opinions of such matters.

Four minutes would be a funeral dirge.

Any anthem sung played in more than 80 seconds (or sung in more than 90) is horrible.

[zm1283]

I'm in agreement that playing/singing the anthem before EVERY game at almost every level of athletic competition is kind of overplayed. It almost lessens the significance of it. It's just something else to get done, like the starting lineups.

Don't get me started on "God Bless America" during the 7th inning stretch of baseball games. The song sucks and has no place in sporting events. Did we even sing it during games before 9/11?

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by Rich

Four minutes would be a funeral dirge.

Any anthem sung played in more than 80 seconds (or sung in more than 90) is horrible.

Rich, most of the HS teams in my area play 2 games a week, for each of 3 levels - sophomore, JV, and Varsity. The Nat'l Anthem is usually played or sung only at the Varsity games. Sometimes, when no one is available to sing the Anthem, the crowd recites the Pledge of Allegiance.
When I sing it, it takes about 70 seconds. So, 2 Men's Varsity games, 2 Women's Varsity games, is about 4 minutes. (You may note my reference to 168 hours in a week - 167 hours, and 56 minutes to discount the value of our freedom, our liberty, our society, as won and protected by our military.)
Oh, and I hope you have a peaceful Veterans' Day.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rob1968

... my father and I both gladly served to preserve and protect every person's right/privilege to differ in their opinions of such matters.

Happy Veteran's Day. Thank you for serving.

[Rob1968]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Happy Veteran's Day. Thank you for serving.

Thanks, Billy. I hope you've had a peaceful Veterans' Day.