Administering FTs after a fight

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

It is treated differently if they fight or if they just come off the bench right? This interpretation seems to have a different take than what was previously stated.

Peace

Fight procedures--When you get a minute take a look at nfhs case book play 10.4.5situation A (c) -- A1 and B1, players on court, punch each other at same time. A6 and A7 leave the bench but don't participate in a fight. B6 and B7 also leave their bench. B6 does NOT Participate but B7 does.

1. Penalize players originally on court first. A1 and B1 ejected, team could total goes up on each side by one. (flagrant Ts) no free throws cause number on court same.

2. Then look at number leaving bench for each side. if the number leaving the bench is the same you will NOT shoot free throws for bench personnel leaving the bench. A6, A7,B6, B7 all given flagrant Ts and ejected. team foul count increases on each side by 2.
Because player left bench for A and did not participate its coach is given an indirect T. Team B coach gets an indirect T because player left bench and didn't fight and also another indirect T for the player who did leave bench and Fight.

3. it would seem that A would get to shoot because a B bench player participated in the fight but that's not what rule says and case book play says.

Another NFHS rule not written clearly….

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Fight procedures--When you get a minute take a look at nfhs case book play 10.4.5situation A (c) -- A1 and B1, players on court, punch each other at same time. A6 and A7 leave the bench but don't participate in a fight. B6 and B7 also leave their bench. B6 does NOT Participate but B7 does.

1. Penalize players originally on court first. A1 and B1 ejected, team could total goes up on each side by one. (flagrant Ts) no free throws cause number on court same.

2. Then look at number leaving bench for each side. if the number leaving the bench is the same you will NOT shoot free throws for bench personnel leaving the bench. A6, A7,B6, B7 all given flagrant Ts and ejected. team foul count increases on each side by 2.
Because player left bench for A and did not participate its coach is given an indirect T. Team B coach gets an indirect T because player left bench and didn't fight and also another indirect T for the player who did leave bench and Fight.

3. it would seem that A would get to shoot because a B bench player participated in the fight but that's not what rule says and case book play says.

Another NFHS rule not written clearly….

There's nothing different about this case play between this year and last year. The last line of the penalty for NFHS 10.4.5 reads:

When a simultaneous technical foul(s) by opponents occurs, the free throws are not awarded when the penalties offset.

The act in 10.4.5 is "(leaving) the confines of the bench during a fight or when a fight may break out," regardless of whether the bench personnel get involved. The penalty is ejection and two FTs for the offended team. That matches up with the rule. The only difference in how it's handled is the effect on the HC. All four players left the confines of the bench so they're all ejected. Each team would be entitled to four FTs regardless of the affect on the HCs so those cancel out.

As far as the OP is concerned, I understand as well. The acts are connected by the same incident but they're still two separate acts.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

There's nothing different about this case play between this year and last year. The last line of the penalty for NFHS 10.4.5 reads:

When a simultaneous technical foul(s) by opponents occurs, the free throws are not awarded when the penalties offset.

The act in 10.4.5 is "(leaving) the confines of the bench during a fight or when a fight may break out," regardless of whether the bench personnel get involved. The penalty is ejection and two FTs for the offended team. That matches up with the rule. The only difference in how it's handled is the effect on the HC. All four players left the confines of the bench so they're all ejected. Each team would be entitled to four FTs regardless of the affect on the HCs so those cancel out.

As far as the OP is concerned, I understand as well. The acts are connected by the same incident but they're still two separate acts.

Agreed, the play has been in the book for a number of years. Also, agreed that fighting on the court and leaving the bench are separate acts penalized separately. this play addresses each separately also.

i was mentioning this play because what i see that confuses some folks, and what i don't like, is the fact that once you determine the number of personnel leaving the bench are equal you don't shoot free throws under the leaving the bench provisions,--- even when one team's bench people fight and the other's don't. there is another case book play where one player of A leaves the bench and does not fight and one of B leaves the bench and does fight. that play says those offset, no free throws and coach of each team gets one indirect. the penalty in that play is no worse for team B even though the B player fought.

was just throwing it out..correct me if i screwed something up.. thx