Administering False Double Fouls

[wildcatter]

I'm a rookie (go easy on me!), and officiate under NCAA rules. I become very confused when trying to administer false double fouls in cases where the two teams commit a personal foul and a technical foul.

Here are the cases that confuse me (and the recently occurred):

1) A1 is driving, and gets fouled by B1 on the shot (block is called, B1 goes down). A1 misses the shot, then tosses the ball down onto B1 (not hard, not flagrant). I call a direct technical.

a) should I have called an intentional technical foul since there was contact? (I know it was not enough to warrant a flagrant technical)

b) If I call a direct technical, do I administer the fouls in the order they occured? (i.e. clear the lane of all players, let A1 shoot 2 shots, then a player from team B shoot 2, and give team B the ball nearest to where the technical occurred?

I am having trouble interpreting the rulebook: In the case of a false double foul or a false multiple foul, each foul shall carry its own penalty. When one of the fouls is a direct or indirect technical foul, the ball shall be put back in play at the point of interruption.

Does this mean my ruling in b) is right, or does it mean I should have team B shoot the technical shots and then proceed with A1s foul shots (lanes occupied) as that is the POI?

Basically, I am confused when to shoot the technicals first, and wondered if there was a good rule of thumb (how much different would it have been if I had called an intentional technical or even a flagrant technical?)

Thanks, and I'm sorry if this is a common thread - I checked back over the last 8 pages, and couldn't find anything about it, and I tried reading the rulebook, but again, got a little confused.

[rainmaker]

Five hours later no one has answered your post yet. Don't worry they will. NCAA people aren't as common here as NFHS. The NCAA people are probably still sleeping off their games last evening. Sit tight, and you'll get your answer.

[bob jenkins]

In NCAA, direct technicals are always (?) shot first, then play is resumed at the POI. So, in your play, B shoots the FTs for the T, then resume with A's FTs for B's foul (with players on the line).

If the T had been intentional of flagrant, then A shoots first, followed by B, but it doesn't really matter since B will get the ball back for a throw-in as part of the penalty for the T.

In FED, FTs are always(?) shot in the order of occurrence.

[eg-italy]

Originally Posted by wildcatter

I'm a rookie (go easy on me!), and officiate under NCAA rules. I become very confused when trying to administer false double fouls in cases where the two teams commit a personal foul and a technical foul.

Here are the cases that confuse me (and the recently occurred):

1) A1 is driving, and gets fouled by B1 on the shot (block is called, B1 goes down). A1 misses the shot, then tosses the ball down onto B1 (not hard, not flagrant). I call a direct technical.

a) should I have called an intentional technical foul since there was contact? (I know it was not enough to warrant a flagrant technical)

b) If I call a direct technical, do I administer the fouls in the order they occured? (i.e. clear the lane of all players, let A1 shoot 2 shots, then a player from team B shoot 2, and give team B the ball nearest to where the technical occurred?

I am having trouble interpreting the rulebook: In the case of a false double foul or a false multiple foul, each foul shall carry its own penalty. When one of the fouls is a direct or indirect technical foul, the ball shall be put back in play at the point of interruption.

Does this mean my ruling in b) is right, or does it mean I should have team B shoot the technical shots and then proceed with A1s foul shots (lanes occupied) as that is the POI?

Basically, I am confused when to shoot the technicals first, and wondered if there was a good rule of thumb (how much different would it have been if I had called an intentional technical or even a flagrant technical?)

Thanks, and I'm sorry if this is a common thread - I checked back over the last 8 pages, and couldn't find anything about it, and I tried reading the rulebook, but again, got a little confused.

Rule 4, Section 26
Art. 12. False double foul. A false double foul occurs when there are fouls by both teams, the second of which occurs before the game clock is started after it is stopped for the first but such that at least one of the attributes of a double foul is absent.

A.R. 89. A1 is entitled to a one-and-one free throw. Before the ball is handed to A1, Team A’s coach is assessed a direct technical foul. RULING: The direct technical foul creates a false double foul. Team B shall be awarded two free throws because of the direct technical foul on coach A. After Team B shoots the free throws for the technical fouls, A1 shall attempt the one-and-one since that was the point of interruption.

This is from the NCAA rulebook, page 88. It seems very similar to your situation. On page 176 you can read that if one of the fouls is a direct or indirect T, then you go to POI; if one the fouls is an intentional or flagrant T, the penalties will be administered in order of occurrence.

(a) shooting foul on B1 + direct or indirect T on A1: two FT for team B and two FT for A1 with lane filled

(b) shooting foul on B1 + intentional or flagrant T on A1: two FT for A1 and two FT for team B with possession at division line.

Any correction from NCAA guys?

It's nice how different organizations resolve differently these situations. In FIBA we would have 2 FT for A1, then 2 FT for team B and possession at division line. In case of more than one foul in the same live-dead ball period, equal penalties cancel out and the remaining ones are administered in order of occurrence. Any technical foul is penalized with 2 FT and possession. I'm pretty sure that NFHS has different rules for these situations.

Ciao

Originally Posted by eg-italy

b) shooting foul on B1 + intentional or flagrant T on A1: two FT for A1 and two FT for team B with possession at division line.

This is true for the men under NCAA rules only. There is no provision for an Intentional Technical Foul for the women.
The flagrant T penalty is the same for both.

[eg-italy]

Originally Posted by PYRef

This is true for the men under NCAA rules only. There is no provision for an Intentional Technical Foul for the women.
The flagrant T penalty is the same for both.

Yes, I should have mentioned it. But the OP thought about assessing an intentional T, so I assumed it was men. By the way, it would not have been an intentional T, am I right?

Why those differences between men's and women's rules?

Ciao

Originally Posted by eg-italy

Yes, I should have mentioned it. But the OP thought about assessing an intentional T, so I assumed it was men. By the way, it would not have been an intentional T, am I right?

Why those differences between men's and women's rules?

Ciao

It could be a Direct Technical for Unsporting Conduct or under women's rules, a Direct T for non-flagrant contact (live or dead ball). 2 FT's and POI

The Intentional Technical for men is for non-flagrant contact during dead ball situations only. 2 FT's and ball at division line

I can only assume it was designed to help eliminate some of the "extra" contact more commonly found at men's games.

[wildcatter]

That helps a lot - I really appreciate it!!