Lane Violations

[Raymond]

Billy, I would think coaches have access to rule books.

And there is a huge difference between TELLING someone to look it up and ASKING them if they have access to reference materials.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Billy, I would think coaches have access to rule books.

Access? Yes. Everybody has access to NFHS publications. But do they purchase them? Back when I was coaching, our athletic director would purchase a rulebook, a casebook, and an illustrated rulebook, for every head coach, in every sport, every year. Then the school's athletic budget got slashed. Let's see? Rulebooks, or reconditioned football helmets?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Access? Yes. Everybody has access to NFHS publications. But do they purchase them? Back when I was coaching, our athletic director would purchase a rulebook, a casebook, and an illustrated rulebook, for every head coach, in every sport, every year. Then the school's athletic budget got slashed. Let's see? Rulebooks, or reconditioned football helmets?

Billy:

You use to be part of the Dark Side! I am shocked! Boy, you think you know people and then you discover this! Welcome back from the Dark Side.

MTD, Sr.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Access? Yes. Everybody has access to NFHS publications. But do they purchase them? Back when I was coaching, our athletic director would purchase a rulebook, a casebook, and an illustrated rulebook, for every head coach, in every sport, every year. Then the school's athletic budget got slashed. Let's see? Rulebooks, or reconditioned football helmets?

At least in my state, my understanding is the schools get rulebooks similar to the officials (which are sent bi-yearly). If coaches do not read them, that is on them. And if it is a budget issue to by a book that might be no more than $8 for a sport you participate in, that is sad. And that is especially the truth when many decisions about equipment and other playing issues would be affected if you do not even know what is allowed or not allowed.

Peace

[bob jenkins]

My take: If "you're" an official, then take the time to look it up yourself. You never know what else you'll find. If "you're" a fan (or a dad helping out at the youth level, etc.), then ask away -- we're glad to have more knowledgeable fans. And, of course, there can be exceptions to both of those -- if "you're" an official, it helps to explain that in the post.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If "you're" an official, then take the time to look it up yourself. You never know what else you'll find.

Why can't a twenty-first century question be "looked up" on websites such as this Forum. There is certainly value to perusing a dead tree rulebook, and casebook, and finding "gems" that one might not be looking for, but this can also be accomplished by perusing this Forum, as many of us do on a daily, or at least, weekly basis, especially during the basketball season.

[bob jenkins]

"looking it up" and "asking for the answer" aren't the same thing.

And, I didn't say he had to use a "dead tree" rulebook.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

"looking it up" and "asking for the answer" aren't the same thing.

I got a few questions wrong on my IAABO Refresher Exam. I am currently in the process of triple checking my incorrect answers. In a few cases I made a stupid error, i.e., not noting the difference between a player technical foul, and a team technical foul. I already know that I will be coming to the Forum on a few questions where I won't be able to find the answer in my rulebook, or casebook. I won't be able to find the answer because it's not in the books, I won't be able to find the answer because, well because, it's just not apparent to me where the answer is (forest through the trees), and it won't be to lack of trying. I already know all the correct answers, I just want to know why I got them wrong.

Once I narrow down my incorrect answers to the point where I don't know why I got them wrong, I will be "looking up the answers" (answers to my questions about why I got some questions wrong) by utilizing all the basketball rules experts here on the Forum. Hopefully I won't have Forum members telling me to "look it up yourself", or questioning whether I have a rulebook, or not. My plan is to post these questions later today (I know that one will be on a correctable error during an unmerited free throw, with said free throw involving a common foul).

It's the twenty-first century. There are more efficient ways of doing things now then there were a short twenty years ago. Embrace the Digital Age (If I can do this in my seventh decade on this planet, then I'm sure that others can do it as well). Knowing how to use the Forum as a resource is part (and not just the only part) of "learning to fish".

(Note: "Asking for (the) answers" one through seventy-five (Yes. No. Yes. Yes ...) on a refresher exam, even an open book refresher exam, is not part of "learning to fish". It's unethical, certainly here in my little corner of Connecticut, and probably almost everywhere else.)

[bd41flpk]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Access? Yes. Everybody has access to NFHS publications. But do they purchase them? Back when I was coaching, our athletic director would purchase a rulebook, a casebook, and an illustrated rulebook, for every head coach, in every sport, every year. Then the school's athletic budget got slashed. Let's see? Rulebooks, or reconditioned football helmets?

Agreed in scenario - (a) After A1 has the ball for the foul shot, the official recognizes that A2 and A3 are occupying the 1st 2 lane spots

(1) On a 1-1 or the 2nd of a 2-shot foul, this is a 'double violation' and the possession is determined by the AP arrow.

(2) On the 1st of a 2-shot foul, A1 loses the shot and then proceed to the 2nd shot and make sure that Team B (defense) occupies the (2) bottom lane spots?

Make sense?

[Adam]

Side note: I hate how a double violation with more FTs to follow leads to, essentially, no penalty on the defense.

Solution: Use the arrow. If the arrow favors the shooting team, they get the shot but lose the arrow. If the arrow favors the defense, the offense loses the shot. Either way, change the arrow as soon as the ball becomes live after that.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Adam

Side note: I hate how a double violation with more FTs to follow leads to, essentially, no penalty on the defense.

Solution: Use the arrow. If the arrow favors the shooting team, they get the shot but lose the arrow. If the arrow favors the defense, the offense loses the shot. Either way, change the arrow as soon as the ball becomes live after that.

Solution: Violations that come as a result of players lining up in the wrong spots is ignored if more free throws are to follow.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by APG

Solution: Violations that come as a result of players lining up in the wrong spots is ignored if more free throws are to follow.

That's half a solution. It's not the only possible double FT violation.

First of three, B5, behind the shooter, steps into the arc.
A1 shoots an airball.

Although I will say the only double violation I've ever called wouldn't be a violation now (A1 shoots, B1 leaves early, shot misses everything).

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

... there is a huge difference between TELLING someone to look it up and ASKING them if they have access to reference materials.

I can't disagree with you, however, in this modern digital age, many would consider this Forum to be a reference material. Do we have a responsibility to give "full" citations (the actual words) on this Forum? My answer would be no. Should we? I believe the answer to be yes, but that's only my opinion of what I would like the Forum to be (a dependable, easily accessible, reference), but I'm just a member, an esteemed member, but, nevertheless, just a member (I'm not Sy Sperling. How's that for an obscure reference?).

http://youtu.be/aHpZPaQB9KE