Establish back in bounds... Please Help

[Multiple Sports]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Why does everyone keep asking about this? The rule and case play are clear. I don't see the confusion.

AR -

Why do you care or even respond ??? We don't know the ID of the poster....the more the merrier and I hope we don't run good people off this forum because of posts like the way you responded.

[Adam]

It's the nature of a discussion forum like this, we're going to get repeated questions. That's ok. I think it's great, even.

For officials who have been studying the rules for years, the questions may come across as basic. Most of us remember, though, that there was a time when we were new to the actual rules and such "basic" questions were still a part of our learning process.

Is this a basic question? Yes, but I know a lot of veteran officials who get it wrong by misapplying the college rule. I've seen this called by the occasional veteran official (sometimes by otherwise very good officials) for a variety of reasons (all wrong, of course.)

I'd rather have people come and inquire than continue operating under misconceptions or struggling to find the reference in the rule book.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Adam

It's the nature of a discussion forum like this, we're going to get repeated questions. That's ok. I think it's great, even.

...

Is this a basic question? Yes, but I know a lot of veteran officials who get it wrong by misapplying the college rule. I've seen this called by the occasional veteran official (sometimes by otherwise very good officials) for a variety of reasons (all wrong, of course.)

I'd rather have people come and inquire than continue operating under misconceptions or struggling to find the reference in the rule book.

How would the college rule be applied in a HS game that would make a ruling wrong where it would have been right in a college game? Isn't the rule and the ruling the same in both? That going OOB due to momentum and returning to touch the ball is legal.

Isn't the college difference you're refering to really about going OOB on purpose, such as to to go a round a screen, and being the first person to touch the ball (i.e., receive a pass) after returning?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Adam

Yes, but I know a lot of veteran officials who get it wrong by misapplying the college rule.

Is the college rule different?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

How would the college rule be applied in a HS game that would make a ruling wrong where it would have been right in a college game? Isn't the rule and the ruling the same in both? That going OOB due to momentum and returning to touch the ball is legal.

Isn't the college difference you're refering to really about going OOB on purpose, such as to to go a round a screen, and being the first person to touch the ball (i.e., receive a pass) after returning?

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Is the college rule different?

I should have worded it slightly different, as "missapplying a misunderstood college rule."

They misunderstand the college rule, and then proceed to apply it at the wrong level. Two wrongs making a worse wrong, IMO.

[PG_Ref]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Is the college rule different?

Is this the rule in question?
NCAA: 9-4
Art. 1. A player who steps out of bounds under his own volition and then becomes the first player to touch the ball after returning to the playing court has committed a violation.

a. A violation has not been committed when a player, who steps out of bounds as permitted by Rule 7-4.6.b, does not receive the pass along the end line from a teammate and is the first to touch the ball after his return to the playing court.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by PG_Ref

Is this the rule in question?
NCAA: 9-4
Art. 1. A player who steps out of bounds under his own volition and then becomes the first player to touch the ball after returning to the playing court has committed a violation.

a. A violation has not been committed when a player, who steps out of bounds as permitted by Rule 7-4.6.b, does not receive the pass along the end line from a teammate and is the first to touch the ball after his return to the playing court.

I agree that this rule is different from the HS equivalent (in HS, it's *supposed to be* an immediate violation to run OOB on your own volition).

This rule, though, has nothing to do with the OP, and nothing to do with "establishing" back inbounds.

I can see where it might be part of the confusion for some.

[justacoach]

I see this most frequently not by officials wrongly using NCAA rules but by those who are hung up on football principles, i.e., failing to get BOTH feet inbounds.

[APG]

Originally Posted by justacoach

I see this most frequently not by officials wrongly using NCAA rules but by those who are hung up on football principles, i.e., failing to get BOTH feet inbounds.

That and I'd also attribute (especially with fans and players) to the fact that in the NBA, in certain situations, a player can not be the first to touch the ball after going out of bounds and coming back in.

[KevinP]

The negative responses that are posted on here are the exact reason I never post. Many new refs with valid questions are getting slammed and embarrassed. In our D2 mens meeting this weekend, it was said, dont forget where you came from, thank the one(s) that got you to where you are now and help the new guy/gals.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by KevinP

The negative responses that are posted on here are the exact reason I never post. Many new refs with valid questions are getting slammed and embarrassed. In our D2 mens meeting this weekend, it was said, dont forget where you came from, thank the one(s) that got you to where you are now and help the new guy/gals.

One relatively negative response, and that response was (correctly, I think) summarily dismissed. And quite frankly, THAT response was really minor compared to anything you'll find on the court, even from some partners who are trying to be helpful.

I had considered simply deleting that response, but decided against it and use it to offer encouragement to the OP.

Originally Posted by KevinP

The negative responses that are posted on here are the exact reason I never post. Many new refs with valid questions are getting slammed and embarrassed. In our D2 mens meeting this weekend, it was said, dont forget where you came from, thank the one(s) that got you to where you are now and help the new guy/gals.

Originally Posted by Adam

One relatively negative response, and that response was (correctly, I think) summarily dismissed. And quite frankly, THAT response was really minor compared to anything you'll find on the court, even from some partners who are trying to be helpful.

I had considered simply deleting that response, but decided against it and use it to offer encouragement to the OP.

My "negative" response was not to slam OP for asking a simple question; I was a new official here a couple years ago, was slammed a little (gently), and would not want to pass that on to anyone. I was simply curious about why this question seems to come up so often (a couple threads on it this year), but my post's tone came off harsher than I intended.

As the mods can attest, I am not in a habit of shaming those who ask questions and welcome any questions you might have in the future KevinP!