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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Sep 15, 2014, 09:08am
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Clever Ruse

Was working a youth (8th grade boys) game on Sat., score was 45(team A)- 44 (team B), time left = 45 secs. Team A had ball and all during game they were feeding this really talented big kid the ball down low (i.e., kid could really execute the drop step and spin moves in the post; but was a poor defensive player and had 4 fouls). Team B calls time out and just prior to play resuming, a guard from Team B comes over to me (mind you I am in the trail position now) and tells me "mr. referee watch me I'm going to draw a charge foul on the center). I said "OK". So when play resumes the Team A throws ball into the post, big kid Team A drop steps and the guard on Team B "flops". Team A wins by 5 pts.
*I guess the coach of Team B told the kid to tell me that he was going to draw a charge. I am soooooo glad my crew member in the lead position did NOT buy into the flop!
*Coaches always working the angles---
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Old Mon Sep 15, 2014, 10:45am
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?????
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Old Mon Sep 15, 2014, 11:40am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
?????
TL;DR: Coach A wants to foul out other teams best player (Player B1). Coach A tells Player A1 player to draw a charge on Player B1, but tell the official first so he can expect it. Player A1 tells wrong official, primary official doesn't bite on the flop.
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Old Mon Sep 15, 2014, 12:35pm
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Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
?????
*are you saying you did not comprehend my post OR are you questioning the stratagem of the Teams?
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Old Mon Sep 15, 2014, 01:13pm
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Originally Posted by Kansas Ref View Post
*are you saying you did not comprehend my post OR are you questioning the stratagem of the Teams?
I didn't quite understand the point of the post. I didn't see a question; I don't think it was a "clever ruse"; players and coaches have been known to tell an official to watch for something that they are about to run; ...

edit: I also don't mean that to sound as curmudgeonly as it might. I'm just trying to clarify if there's something for me to learn, or something for us to address.

Last edited by bob jenkins; Mon Sep 15, 2014 at 01:40pm.
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Old Mon Sep 15, 2014, 01:20pm
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Originally Posted by Kansas Ref View Post
*are you saying you did not comprehend my post OR are you questioning the stratagem of the Teams?
I was a little confused as well. Coaches try to tell us what to call or tell us what they are doing all the time. That is nothing new to many of us that have been out there for some time. Actually I am surprised when a coach does not try to influence what we call in some way or inventive way.

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Old Mon Sep 15, 2014, 01:53pm
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ahhh OK, fellow refs: actually it's the first time it has happened to me in such a --shall I say--direct manner. Nevertheless, I can see that most of you did comprehend the intent of post.
I must confess, I did find it amusing tho that the kid was being "put up to"--however, he was telling the wrong ref
Thanks.
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Old Mon Sep 15, 2014, 02:34pm
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I thought you were going to go into how Team B can take a timeout when Team A has the ball. Now that is a clever ruse.
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Old Mon Sep 15, 2014, 02:44pm
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Originally Posted by Toren View Post
I thought you were going to go into how Team B can take a timeout when Team A has the ball. Now that is a clever ruse.
I'm thinking maybe a dead ball...but I could be wrong.
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Old Mon Sep 15, 2014, 03:06pm
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Originally Posted by BatteryPowered View Post
I'm thinking maybe a dead ball...but I could be wrong.
Can a team "have" a dead ball?

and, I think you're giving the kids way too much credit if you think they should know which official will be responsible for a potential charge play. Heck, if you saw the flop then you would also have seen any foul and it's likely (in my mind's eye) that it would be such a play that you should go get it if your partner didn't.
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Old Mon Sep 15, 2014, 03:09pm
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Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Can a team "have" a dead ball?

and, I think you're giving the kids way too much credit if you think they should know which official will be responsible for a potential charge play. Heck, if you saw the flop then you would also have seen any foul and it's likely (in my mind's eye) that it would be such a play that you should go get it if your partner didn't.

I didn't say team A "had" a dead ball...I said maybe there WAS a dead ball.

And I agree...many kids at the high school level wouldn't know which official to tell, much less a junior high kid.
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Old Mon Sep 15, 2014, 11:23pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansas Ref View Post
Was working a youth (8th grade boys) game on Sat., score was 45(team A)- 44 (team B), time left = 45 secs. Team A had ball and all during game they were feeding this really talented big kid the ball down low (i.e., kid could really execute the drop step and spin moves in the post; but was a poor defensive player and had 4 fouls). Team B calls time out and just prior to play resuming, a guard from Team B comes over to me (mind you I am in the trail position now) and tells me "mr. referee watch me I'm going to draw a charge foul on the center). I said "OK". So when play resumes the Team A throws ball into the post, big kid Team A drop steps and the guard on Team B "flops". Team A wins by 5 pts.
*I guess the coach of Team B told the kid to tell me that he was going to draw a charge. I am soooooo glad my crew member in the lead position did NOT buy into the flop!
*Coaches always working the angles---
Coach waits all game to make an adjustment and that's what he comes up with? Have the guard cover their talented big man, and hope he commits a charge?
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Old Tue Sep 16, 2014, 01:31pm
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you know how those coaches are always working the angles--can't blame them though, I'd prolly do the same if I (Heaven-forbid ) was ever a hoops coach!
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Old Tue Sep 16, 2014, 02:23pm
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Coaches who intentionally tell their kids to cheat aren't working the angles, they're cheating. They can call it "working the angles," but it's deceitful and cheating.
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Old Tue Sep 16, 2014, 03:20pm
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Originally Posted by Adam View Post
Coaches who intentionally tell their kids to cheat aren't working the angles, they're cheating. They can call it "working the angles," but it's deceitful and cheating.
Maybe he wasn't teaching him to cheat. maybe he told the kid to go in there, guard the behemoth and take a charge ... and the kid either didn't know how to or was afraid to get too close.
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